Another opening - almost

[BillConnerFASTC]

Just returned from next to final trip to Doylestown OH project - 426 seat HS/MS auditorium and stage. It would be done except the construction manager offered savings by using Seating Concepts instead of Irwin and Seating Concepts stopped operations a week or two before this was to deliver and install. Anyway, I got to see the wall washers off a decorative wall treatment. I was nervous how it would work - washing upper side walls with profiles from opposite corners of the room. I was pleased. May play with shutter cuts and am considering a profile mask for the entry vestibules. Four ETC S4WRD - 3K 80CRI - 50 degree EDLT.

BTW DMX is all CS wireless relays and has worked flawlessly so far. And the running lights (jelly jars) are all fitted with Ketra lamps so you can pick colors with Paradigm or Element 2. I just set presets blue or white in each zone.

Always pleasant when more things and first time things work at first site visit than don't work. This one was good in that regard.

 

[Amiers]

It’s super awesome that you get to do that.

And that you document and share.

Looks really cool.

 

[JohnD]

Oh cool, festival seating, Why even Cain's Ballroom doesn't need no stinking seats.
I do wonder about how much the "savings" offered by the construction manager will end up costing them.

 

[RonHebbard]

Just returned from next to final trip to Doylestown OH project - 426 seat HS/MS auditorium and stage. It would be done except the construction manager offered savings by using Seating Concepts instead of Irwin and Seating Concepts stopped operations a week or two before this was to deliver and install. Anyway, I got to see the wall washers off a decorative wall treatment. I was nervous how it would work - washing upper side walls with profiles from opposite corners of the room. I was pleased. May play with shutter cuts and am considering a profile mask for the entry vestibules. Four ETC S4WRD - 3K 80CRI - 50 degree EDLT.

BTW DMX is all CS wireless relays and has worked flawlessly so far. And the running lights (jelly jars) are all fitted with Ketra lamps so you can pick colors with Paradigm or Element 2. I just set presets blue or white in each zone.

Always pleasant when more things and first time things work at first site visit than don't work. This one was good in that regard.

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@BillConnerFASTC What's poured within the house floor slab? Are those concrete boxes for aisle light power? Are there any conduits and back-boxes for intercom, video, isolated ground sound power, utility power for rehearsal desk lights and cleaners' vacuums, CAT5 or 6 for??? What will the final floor finish be; epoxy paint, wood, carpet??
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard

 

[Jay Ashworth]

So the contractor tried to sub out a seating vendor, who *went out of business before delivering*, do I have that right?

Heh heh heh...

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

The junction boxes in the floor slab are for seat end aisle lights. Not part of my work but plenty of sound and av infrastructure - notice in house control at rear is reall sound system center, with two racks to side, floor pockets on stage (poor choice of hardware but squeaks are so unconcerned with stage function), and plenty in face of stage and other places. I just have a couple doxen taps for lighting network and the wireless. (Plenty of storage - mezzanines to left and rigght of house, and stage level stsge right, where av racks are.)

Floor will be carpeted aisles and i believe paint under seats, but could be rubber tile -not sure. Stage floor is painted plyron.

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

So the contractor tried to sub out a seating vendor, who *went out of business before delivering*, do I have that right?

Heh heh heh...

Manufacturer - Seating Concepts. Made in Mexico. Could be tariffs that did it.

 

[RonHebbard]

Manufacturer - Seating Concepts. Made in Mexico. Could be tariffs that did it.

@BillConnerFASTC Or the seats won't pass through Donald's wall? (I guess that's kind of the same thing.)
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard

 

[JohnD]

A google search lists Seating Concepts as permanently closed and there was a California bankruptcy auction that ended on July 30.

 

[MNicolai]

Manufacturer - Seating Concepts. Made in Mexico. Could be tariffs that did it.

I'm seeing this come up more and more frequently in construction meetings. Architects and CM's around here are bracing for projects to become much more expensive. Couple architectural lighting reps warned us of new price lists coming out Oct 1. I've even got contractors wigging out over the cost of speaker mounting hardware. We're expecting it won't be long before fewer projects are released for construction until the tariffs are released.

The hard part is that in this kind of volatility, a contractor generally can't get a change order for a project awarded to them a year ago that they need to order materials for today. Looking forward, they have to bid their projects higher assuming that 1) the tariffs are here to stay, and 2) they could get worse.

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

A google search lists Seating Concepts as permanently closed and there was a California bankruptcy auction that ended on July 30.

They were to deliver first week of August for fall semester opening. I have to imagine this is not the only one that they didn't deliver.
The one job they did do for me was poor, so no loss imho.

 

[FMEng]

floor pockets on stage (poor choice of hardware but squeaks are so unconcerned with stage function), and plenty in face of stage and other places.

I've encountered floor pockets in a few venues, and just never liked them. It seems to me that a cable going off to the wings or to the face of the stage is just as unobtrusive. It seems like floor pockets are always in the wrong place, and the connectors get dirty. Or they get damaged, or a poor installation creates a trip hazard, or they are noisy when stepped on.

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

I've encountered floor pockets in a few venues, and just never liked them. It seems to me that a cable going off to the wings or to the face of the stage is just as unobtrusive. It seems like floor pockets are always in the wrong place, and the connectors get dirty. Or they get damaged, or a poor installation creates a trip hazard, or they are noisy when stepped on.

I with you 100%. Technology and AV designers don't seem to care.

 

[MNicolai]

I with you 100%. Technology and AV designers don't seem to care.

I typically put one on the stage apron offset from the projection screen just so if a presenter's lectern is put out you aren't trying to string mic/video/power across the floor. Kind of thing where if it's being used for something like a commencement address or awards ceremony with lots of people walking across the stage nobody biffs it on the AV cabling. Also because HDMI cables can only be so long before the signal degrades and finding a 35' HDMI can be difficult in a pinch. In these instances it's also nice for the "I don't know what I'm doing" users rather than having them tie in at a downstage right AV panel with 20 other connectors on it.

If the room has an orchestra pit it's usually not worth it. Then the box ends up 10-20' behind where the presenter wants to set up and the cabling ends up in the way exactly like's been described.

 

[TheaterEd]

It seems like floor pockets are always in the wrong place

I have two floor pockets. One is just slightly off center with only a data port in it that connects to the school's network and not my own. No power, no sound, nothing. Apparently it's intention was so the school board could connect a desk top to the internet for their annual meeting..... This install opened in 2012 With Wifi, and the board (nor anyone else) has never brought a desktop into this room...

The second floor pocket is for inputs to the projector, however it is just downstage of the main curtain, and upstage of the screen, so in order to have the podium in a place that makes sense, cable need to be run across the only stage access. Thus I am taping down cables no matter what...

Hindsight 20/20....

 

[mbrown3039]

I with you 100%. Technology and AV designers don't seem to care.

Well (along with mnicolai), we care. We only design/recommend floor pockets to be on the downstage edge of the stage, and they usually include power, XLR (both ways) and a couple of networks back to the AV rack room, where they can be patched out to the WWW, used for video, DMX, etc. m

 

[SteveB]

This is what I call a “Floor Pocket to be named later”. Placed out in the rear of the audience seating, nicely routed into the cherry wood floor, concrete an inch below and no clue what it was supposed to be.

We suspect it as intended for the side of the pit area, to have dedicated power circuits. Those where installed (incorrectly) with a bizarre industrial cover that requires a screwdriver to take off the 4”x4” top plate. Possibly they had already installed these out in the rear auditorium and decided to leave in place and not have to make nice cherry wood replacment pieces, then just ordered different pocket covers at the pit.

Such stupidity.

 

[RonHebbard]

This is what I call a “Floor Pocket to be named later”. Placed out in the rear of the audience seating, nicely routed into the cherry wood floor, concrete an inch below and no clue what it was supposed to be.

We suspect it as intended for the side of the pit area, to have dedicated power circuits. Those where installed (incorrectly) with a bizarre industrial cover that requires a screwdriver to take off the 4”x4” top plate. Possibly they had already installed these out in the rear auditorium and decided to leave in place and not have to make nice cherry wood replacment pieces, then just ordered different pocket covers at the pit.

Such stupidity.

@SteveB Please do tell, are there conduits routed to the pocket? I, fortunately, caught several pockets about to be installed without any conduits. When queried, the electrical contractor stated they were intended for wireless devices.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard

 

[SteveB]

@SteveB Please do tell, are there conduits routed to the pocket? I, fortunately, caught several pockets about to be installed without any conduits. When queried, the electrical contractor stated they were intended for wireless devices.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard

Anybody’s guess. It’s a poured concrete floor with the remnants of the plywood used to form during construction, stuck to the top of the slab. Our guess is the contractor read the plans upside down, with these covers just at the wrong end of the room.

I hate these covers. It’s a solid piece with a 3”x3” square hole for cables. The same FP’s on the stage deck have 2P&G receptacles installed and with a cable in a receptacle used you cannot close the cover as the connector protrudes above deck level. Really stupid choice on the consultant.

In the road house I have 8 FP’s installed, 6 2P&G receptacles each and these are the ETC/Altman model, cast iron things with 8 hole cutouts on the cover. These pockets sit on deck exactly in line with and just offstage of where our side light towers live, so the cables go right into the FP, nothing needs taping or covering. Many a dance company has commented on how useful they are.

 

[Amiers]

Anybody’s guess. It’s a poured concrete floor with the remnants of the plywood used to form during construction, stuck to the top of the slab. Our guess is the contractor read the plans upside down, with these covers just at the wrong end of the room.

I hate these covers. It’s a solid piece with a 3”x3” square hole for cables. The same FP’s on the stage deck have 2P&G receptacles installed and with a cable in a receptacle used you cannot close the cover as the connector protrudes above deck level. Really stupid choice on the consultant.

In the road house I have 8 FP’s installed, 6 2P&G receptacles each and these are the ETC/Altman model, cast iron things with 8 hole cutouts on the cover. These pockets sit on deck exactly in line with and just offstage of where our side light towers live, so the cables go right into the FP, nothing needs taping or covering. Many a dance company has commented on how useful they are.

I feel like they specced for compact connectors.

Those tiny rectangle (bates 2pg??) connectors.