Mixers/Consoles Any recommendation?

[Adha]

Hi,
I need some recommendation for mixer. Currently we are using Soundcraft LX7 in school theater. i would like to upgrade to digital. Requirement i need is
1) 32 channel
2) User friendly because student will be using it as well.
3) max range for price 5k
i have some mixer in my mind like allen and heath qu32, soundcraft expression 3, behringer x32.
what would you guys recommend?

thanks

 

[egilson1]

My X32 arrived yesterday. Paid just under $2500 with tax and shipping. I did a bunch of research and this seems to be a great console.

 

[jkowtko]

The only drawback with the x32 is that you have only 16 channel faders, so you must always operate with at least 2 layers. I believe the Qu32 has a full set of 32 channel faders. Both boards have pretty full iPad/iPhone/Android capabilities. Both have digital snake and stage box options.

So I would suggest that at this point in time, the x32 or Qu32 are your two best choices.

 

[rsmentele]

I love the Allen & Heath QU series. I use a 16 channel and 24 channel very often and I love them. They hit the price point of the X32, but with the rock solid reliability of Allen & Heath. Full Compass has a special on them right now as well:

http://www.fullcompass.com/prod/509982-Allen-and-Heath-Qu-32

 

[brin831]

Si impact ... 24 faders ... 40 ch to mix multitasking etc ... said this on another post I'm partial bc have a few but sound great and really a good console.

 

[avkid]

Behringer or Midas X32/M32 depending on budget.
The Midas feels a little better if you're concerned with that type of thing.

 

[josh88]

The only drawback with the x32 is that you have only 16 channel faders, so you must always operate with at least 2 layers. I believe the Qu32 has a full set of 32 channel faders. Both boards have pretty full iPad/iPhone/Android capabilities. Both have digital snake and stage box options.

So I would suggest that at this point in time, the x32 or Qu32 are your two best choices.

I add another vote for the x32, Got mine a year ago and its been a breeze to work with. I never had much problem switching between the layers to get all of the 32 faders. Its a button push to get back and forth.

 

[Mike R]

I agree with Josh. It's a great console, easy to use, and students have picked it up fairly easily. The switching between layers has not been an issue for them on any of the shows that they have used it on.

 

[FMEng]

I add another vote for the x32, Got mine a year ago and its been a breeze to work with. I never had much problem switching between the layers to get all of the 32 faders. Its a button push to get back and forth.

Layers are not an issue for me, either. It does take a bit of thought when assigning sources to faders. For example, I prefer to not have drums span across two layers. The X32 also allows inputs to spill across the buss/DCA faders by pushing two layer buttons together. Very handy.

 

[BillESC]

Have had our several years. Very happy.

 

[MNicolai]

Not to swim up current here, but one of my reps came by a couple months ago with an M32, which is supposedly the next step up above an X32. He came to have us listen to his speakers, and the M32 was a fancy DA to get signal out to each of his amplifiers. In free air, in the direct field, the speakers sounded just absolutely awful. We brought out a meter to flatten the EQ and see if we could bring this loudspeaker demo back from the dead. Even when it metered flat it still sounded like dirt.

We removed the M32 from the signal chain altogether and everything cleared up instantly and the speakers sounded much more like what I'd expect an out of the box, non-equalized speaker to sound. Then when we metered them again and flatten the EQ on them with a DSP we were able to get them sounding pristine. This leads me to believe that the signal processing and preamps within the M32 have less than desirable quality -- and in a very tangible way.

I'm sure I'll catch flak for this from the die hards, but you get what you pay for. An M32 or X32 will save you from having to get a bunch of outboard gear, and from coughing up $25,000 for the professional grade solutions these consoles try to compete with. They've pioneered a tier of product offerings with far more bang for the buck than you've ever been able to get your hands on in any previous decade in that price point but they do have their limitations, their idiosyncrasies, and their compromises.

 

[Footer]

Not to swim up current here, but one of my reps came by a couple months ago with an M32, which is supposedly the next step up above an X32. He came to have us listen to his speakers, and the M32 was a fancy DA to get signal out to each of his amplifiers. In free air, in the direct field, the speakers sounded just absolutely awful. We brought out a meter to flatten the EQ and see if we could bring this loudspeaker demo back from the dead. Even when it metered flat it still sounded like dirt.

We removed the M32 from the signal chain altogether and everything cleared up instantly and the speakers sounded much more like what I'd expect an out of the box, non-equalized speaker to sound. Then when we metered them again and flatten the EQ on them with a DSP we were able to get them sounding pristine. This leads me to believe that the signal processing and preamps within the M32 have less than desirable quality -- and in a very tangible way.

I'm sure I'll catch flak for this from the die hards, but you get what you pay for. An M32 or X32 will save you from having to get a bunch of outboard gear, and from coughing up $25,000 for the professional grade solutions these consoles try to compete with. They've pioneered a tier of product offerings with far more bang for the buck than you've ever been able to get your hands on in any previous decade in that price point but they do have their limitations, their idiosyncrasies, and their compromises.

You run an impulse response on that rig? You ensure that you had a good start file that didn't have some routing issue in the desk?

We've done 60 or so shows on our m32...and about twice that on our x32. Never have I had any issues with sound quality. They aren't a pro2.... But I think you had some other issues there.

 

[FMEng]

I would say there was something undiscovered contributing to what you heard. Without knowing exactly how the signal chain was configured, and knowing all of the stupid things the rep could have inadvertently done with the M32, I'd have to say something about the setup was screwy. Heck, it could have been as simple as a bad Cat 5 cable, or a bit of delay dialed into an output, throwing two amp channels out of time aliignment. I've listened for many hours to an X32 on studio monitors, in controlled environments, and it is a fine sounding console. Plenty of other experienced ears say the same thing.

It's also possible that the console and DL16 woke up funny. I've only had it happen to me once, but I had an instance where my X32 and an S16 produced severe distortion on one of the outputs during initial sound check. I powered both units down for a moment and everything was perfect after that. I can't remember, but I may have connected the AES50 cable while both ends were powered up, which is probably a no-no.

 

[MNicolai]

Clean file, pumping signal through a Symetrix to the amps. Symetrix was flattening speaker response. No console EQ until we added it to correct for the environment. Bypassing the console altogether was night/day difference.

Reproduced the same effect 3 weeks later on a separate demo routed through an old analog Mackie. You get what you pay for, and most people are used to what they've gotten so they don't realize what they're missing.

I'm not surprised. Most people can't tell when they aren't getting the most out of their sound system. "Good enough" or "as good as it gets" meets their expectations. Audio is by and far an intangible thing to people and with an A/B they can't discern substantial differences in sound quality. Heck, even the manufacturer's tech who should be an expert in their speakers didn't hear what was being complained about until we killed the M32 out of signal chain. Just like I've seen all kinds of guys who didn't notice their balcony delays were blown or reps who just toured their speakers to 6 shops before mine not realizing they had the wrong processing engaged or a speaker out of polarity.

Is it possible there was something off with the rig? Sure, anything is possible. Someday my dog might be able to levitate and shoot lasers out of his eyes but I know what I heard. And what I heard was compelling enough that I've had to ban all future reps from running demos off any console at all.

Admittedly, I expected that kind of night/day difference from an X32 but even in their effort to compete in a value market I expected more out of Midas.

Like I said before though, I have every confidence that most X/M32 users out there have gotten more utility (aka customer satisfaction) out of their purchase per dollar spent than someone who just spent $75,000 on a Digico. The price is what you pay, the quality is what you get, and for most people in that price range the quality is probably good enough.

 

[Footer]

Symetrix to the amps. Symetrix was flattening speaker response. No console EQ until we added it to correct for the environment. Bypassing the console altogether was night/day difference.

Gain Structure? You are also using a processor that most system techs would not touch with a 10' pole with a clown on the end...

AES the whole way?

Source material?

Going through auxes or preamps?

Kind of speakers?

Kind of amps?


....I call BS on your claims. You were using an inferior processor designed for casino floors and sports bars.

Yes, I can hear the difference between our X32 and our Pro2. However, most of the difference is in how the pre-amps are colored vs how the desk actually sounds. It takes a full Meyer rig with XTA processing to hear it. There is nothing wrong with the "sound" of the X32 or M32 but it does not have the same coloring as a Midas preamp.

Second, if your doing a demo you are going to use an old mackie desk as a line mixer? Who knows what kind of dirt is in that thing. A new one would be fine if you were bypassing the pre's... but really? You are going to setup a demo and grab a desk on the bottom shelf?

 

[avkid]

Also remember not all DSP's are the same.
"Flat" might not be anything close to it.
http://www.rane.com/note167.html

 

[dpak]

I've been very happy with the Soundcraft Expression 3. I don't have any experience with the other consoles mentioned, but I can say that the Expression has been very easy for both my students and me to learn.

 

[MNicolai]

That's a mighty big glass house you're living in there to throw sticks at Symetrix while mixing on an X32 or M32. It's not my favorite DSP but it has its advantages and seems to be growing in popularity. Much like what I said about how the M32 serves its purpose but has obvious deficiencies one could expect to find in a desk that inexpensive. And like I said before, the only thing changed in the signal chain between the speakers sounding great and the speakers sounding unimpressive was the M32. You can get as tweaky as you want about everything else but that was the single variable changed in this instance.

I'm not going to argue this any further. We've had a similar disagreement before and I know it's fruitless to carry this discussion on. You're 100%!sold on these product lines, and while I see their benefits I am remain skeptical about their supposed lack of compromises. We aren't going to find middle ground on this by arguing on the Internet.

 

[RonHebbard]

Clean file, pumping signal through a Symetrix to the amps. Symetrix was flattening speaker response. No console EQ until we added it to correct for the environment. Bypassing the console altogether was night/day difference.

Reproduced the same effect 3 weeks later on a separate demo routed through an old analog Mackie. You get what you pay for, and most people are used to what they've gotten so they don't realize what they're missing.

I'm not surprised. Most people can't tell when they aren't getting the most out of their sound system. "Good enough" or "as good as it gets" meets their expectations. Audio is by and far an intangible thing to people and with an A/B they can't discern substantial differences in sound quality. Heck, even the manufacturer's tech who should be an expert in their speakers didn't hear what was being complained about until we killed the M32 out of signal chain. Just like I've seen all kinds of guys who didn't notice their balcony delays were blown or reps who just toured their speakers to 6 shops before mine not realizing they had the wrong processing engaged or a speaker out of polarity.

Is it possible there was something off with the rig? Sure, anything is possible. Someday my dog might be able to levitate and shoot lasers out of his eyes but I know what I heard. And what I heard was compelling enough that I've had to ban all future reps from running demos off any console at all.

Admittedly, I expected that kind of night/day difference from an X32 but even in their effort to compete in a value market I expected more out of Midas.

Like I said before though, I have every confidence that most X/M32 users out there have gotten more utility (aka customer satisfaction) out of their purchase per dollar spent than someone who just spent $75,000 on a Digico. The price is what you pay, the quality is what you get, and for most people in that price range the quality is probably good enough.

Pl

Clean file, pumping signal through a Symetrix to the amps. Symetrix was flattening speaker response. No console EQ until we added it to correct for the environment. Bypassing the console altogether was night/day difference.

Reproduced the same effect 3 weeks later on a separate demo routed through an old analog Mackie. You get what you pay for, and most people are used to what they've gotten so they don't realize what they're missing.

I'm not surprised. Most people can't tell when they aren't getting the most out of their sound system. "Good enough" or "as good as it gets" meets their expectations. Audio is by and far an intangible thing to people and with an A/B they can't discern substantial differences in sound quality. Heck, even the manufacturer's tech who should be an expert in their speakers didn't hear what was being complained about until we killed the M32 out of signal chain. Just like I've seen all kinds of guys who didn't notice their balcony delays were blown or reps who just toured their speakers to 6 shops before mine not realizing they had the wrong processing engaged or a speaker out of polarity.

Is it possible there was something off with the rig? Sure, anything is possible. Someday my dog might be able to levitate and shoot lasers out of his eyes but I know what I heard. And what I heard was compelling enough that I've had to ban all future reps from running demos off any console at all.

Admittedly, I expected that kind of night/day difference from an X32 but even in their effort to compete in a value market I expected more out of Midas.

Like I said before though, I have every confidence that most X/M32 users out there have gotten more utility (aka customer satisfaction) out of their purchase per dollar spent than someone who just spent $75,000 on a Digico. The price is what you pay, the quality is what you get, and for most people in that price range the quality is probably good enough.

Please let us know when your "dog levitates and shoots lasers out of his eyes." Pictures would be good, video better.
Edited to add quotation marks.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.
(Long time lover of levitating canines.)

 

[Wheezy]

How does the X32 handle preset cues? Unless I am missing something, the Qu-32 that I use requires multiple key presses to fire a preset. Sure, you could put some functions on soft keys, such as 'next cue', but you can't EQ and see presets at the same time in the Superstrip window.