Are Source Fours over priced?

[SerraAva]

Yup, you made it sound as though S4s are like all the people riding around with H.I.D. headlights compared to standard lights. Optics play the best role in the quality of light. Its just like a Mac 550 out shines a Studio Spot 575 even though its a 400w lamp vs a 575w lamp.

The point of me making this post is I have my boss who has built a company from the ground up saying to me we could've did something with a cheaper product. I don't like using cheaper products unless there is a really good reason. The fact that after you get all the angles for a Par 64 with more expensive lamps and a higher power consumption vs a S4 Par with better optics, more power efficient, smaller, and less inventory is a good reason not to go with the 64. As far as lekos go, thankfully the only thing I use is S4s. There is just nothing else out there that can compare. The competition isn't as bright, uses too much power, or costs far more.

Logos, I am pretty positive that a S4 doesn't have a 'set' voltage. Its just based on the type of lamp you put in them, they come in 77v for double dimming, 115v, 120v, 230v, and 240v for whatever your voltage is. The configuration of the lamp is the same, just different voltage is all. The only ones different are the 750w with the extra metal pin so they can't be put in S4 Jrs, S4 MCM Pars, and older S4 base caps before the release of the 750w HPL lamp.

 

[Logos]

Logos, I am pretty positive that a S4 doesn't have a 'set' voltage. Its just based on the type of lamp you put in them, they come in 77v for double dimming, 115v, 120v, 230v, and 240v for whatever your voltage is. The configuration of the lamp is the same, just different voltage is all. The only ones different are the 750w with the extra metal pin so they can't be put in S4 Jrs, S4 MCM Pars, and older S4 base caps before the release of the 750w HPL lamp.

Worth following up. I will thanks. I was worried about the wiring ratings I guess. A little rewiring wouldn't hurt though. I would have to replug.

 

[SerraAva]

Plugs would be the only thing to change really. If you have twist lock, you could get lucky and get a plug rated for 240v. Wiring should be find since W=VA. 575w/120v=4.79a where as 575w/240v=2.4a or even worse 750w/115v=6.52a and 750w/230v=3.26a. So 120v uses more amps, and its the amperage that determines how thick of a cable you need.

 

[gafftaper]

Logos I bet a US dealer could easily order and sell you S4's all ready to run on your crazy power system. The right dealer might even be willing to help put them on a boat to Oz for you. I would imagine it's just a matter of grabbing sockets out of a different box at the factory.

 

[jmabray]

their products aren't all that cheap (cheaper than s4's though) but they are good quality

Only in your part of the world. S4's are usually cheaper everywhere else in the world. All a matter of shipping costs....


Think about it from a manufacturers standpoint. Which would ultimately be more cost effective. To make several different varieties of end caps depending upon where each fixture goes in the world (one endcap for Aus, one for US, one for Europe, etc) Or one endcap that is rated to carry enough amperage no matter where in the world the fixture is shipping to.

Since the US fixtures would be required to be rated for the most amperage, it would seem to make more sense to rate all the end caps for that highest amperage, and everything else would be covered.

 

[Logos]

Plugs would be the only thing to change really. If you have twist lock, you could get lucky and get a plug rated for 240v. Wiring should be find since W=VA. 575w/120v=4.79a where as 575w/240v=2.4a or even worse 750w/115v=6.52a and 750w/230v=3.26a. So 120v uses more amps, and its the amperage that determines how thick of a cable you need.

Yeah I wasn't thinking really. Half the voltage twice the amperage basic physics. Duhh. The plugs would have to change. I'll look into it. At over $600AUD it might be worth it even with import duty and if I buy few enough I might not get caught with that.

 

[icewolf08]

Yeah I wasn't thinking really. Half the voltage twice the amperage basic physics. Duhh. The plugs would have to change. I'll look into it. At over $600AUD it might be worth it even with import duty and if I buy few enough I might not get caught with that.

Why worry about plugs, most of the time people ship the fixtures without connectors, you have to buy them yourself. Why? Because even here in the US there are at least 3 different lug types that people are using, and the fixture manufacturer doesn't know what the end user is using. Most of the time if you get fixtures with connectors, it is because the dealer is supplying them or attaching them. It is probably cheaper to buy your connectors local anyway, saves on shipping.

As for getting shipping organized, I would try to find a bunch of people who need things shipped from the US. Get together and rent a shipping container and have everything shipped together so you can split the cost, as it will be one rate for the container no matter what you put in it.

 

[church]

Its not the current that is the issue with the wiring it is the insulation resistance and temperature rating of the wire. Insulation resistance also decreases with operating temperature. When designing electrical equipment the air gap size between uninsulated conductors and grounded surface is also important - the higher the voltage the greater the gap size - required to prevent arcing in humid and dusty conditions. the lamp holders must also be certified for the voltage - again to ensure that the insulation resistance remains at safe levels when operating at elevated temperatures and that no arcs or fires will occur.

Electrical codes in different countries specify a voltage rating for wiring which in many countries has to be marked on the wires themselves plus carry an approved testing mark. In Canada this means all electrical wiring must carry a CSA or cULC mark every 12 inches and will also typically be marked with 300V or 600V plus the temperature rating. The equipment must also carry either an approval certificate or a field evaluation approval certificate. In Europe the CE marking is a legal requirement.

To illustrate how pedantic this is it is illegal to sell equipment in Canada that does not carry the approval labels and the equipment is subject to siezure. Also note that your insurance company will consider you are in default. It is illegal to sell equipment in Europe without the CE mark. I would guess that Australia and New Zealand have similar requirements as indeed does the USA. In the US it is the UL label. Please note the UL label does not apply on a worldwide basis

 

[gafftaper]

Again, I have a really hard time believing that a U.S. dealer couldn't get you the exact model you would normally purchase in OZ at a U.S. price and let you deal with shipping. So all the ratings would be correct, you would just have to ship it yourself.

I believe the point JMABRAY was trying to make was that they are all basically the same anyway when it comes to wiring and ratings.

Also Icewolf's right, if you have the connectors put on at the factory you will pay $15-$20 each. You can often get them put on by the dealer for $10-$15 as part of a large package deal. But if you are only buying a couple the most logical thing is to buy the $5 connector and do it yourself.

 

[STEVETERRY]

Again, I have a really hard time believing that a U.S. dealer couldn't get you the exact model you would normally purchase in OZ at a U.S. price and let you deal with shipping. So all the ratings would be correct, you would just have to ship it yourself.
I believe the point JMABRAY was trying to make was that they are all basically the same anyway when it comes to wiring and ratings.
Also Icewolf's right, if you have the connectors put on at the factory you will pay $15-$20 each. You can often get them put on by the dealer for $10-$15 as part of a large package deal. But if you are only buying a couple the most logical thing is to buy the $5 connector and do it yourself.

Err....

CE-Marked Source Fours (closest to C-Tick for AU) have different safety features than US versions to comply with CE norms. This is not simply the connector. There is a cost associated with these additional features.


ST

 

[gafftaper]

Ok, thanks Steve. Still couldn't a US dealer order CE model and help Logos ship them himself? ...Potentially saving money over purchasing through a dealer from OZ.

 

[Logos]

This is getting more complex than I thought. I will continue to explore the import situation but I think I may drop the idea because of the safety issues.

 

[STEVETERRY]

Ok, thanks Steve. Still couldn't a US dealer order CE model and help Logos ship them himself? ...Potentially saving money over purchasing through a dealer from OZ.

We try to protect the local territory dealers who stock and service our product line. Therefore, we discourage purchase of our product from a US dealer by a customer in another country. It's likely the wrong product (no CE compliance), and the service that one may inevitably need is best provided by the local dealer, and probably unavailable in a reasonable time frame from abroad.
It might look cheaper to buy out-of-country, but when you figure in the safety compliance and service issues, it probably turns out to be a bad deal.
This reminds me of an experience I had buying a motorcycle.
A mail-order firm 600 miles from home offered me the best deal, by a lot. The new bike died on the way home, and I had to fly home and fly back to pick up the repaired bike. My local dealer had a slightly hurt expression when I finally traded the bike in for a new one. I realized that the power of local service is worth money. From then on, when I bought subsequent new bikes from the local dealer, I asked "Are you charging me enough to stay in business so that you're there when I need you on a Sunday when my bike dies by the side of the road?"
Source Fours aren't motorcycles, but perhaps you get my point.
ST

 

[Ford]

Don't ride them on Sundays?