ArtNet/WDMX Help

Joined
Jan 15, 2019
Location
San Jose
Hey all, I'm looking at artnet to help expand the amount of channels my movers can take up on my board.

Currently I'm using two separate dmx transmitters for two different universes. Is there any way that I can transfer artnet wirelessly, or is there a better way to wirelessly run a lot of possible universes (Let's say maybe 4)? And if there isn't any other way to wirelessly do dmx universes, I'd love to know what kind of WDMX transmitters you guys are using (Preferably on the more cost effective side).

Again, let me know if I'm not quite understanding what artnet does, I only started to research it today.

Thank you again.
 

dbaxter

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2007
Location
Rochester, NY
Artnet is a means to connect to a dmx generating device. It is the ethernet alternative to, say, a USB connection using D2XX, or a serial connection using RS232. You don't say what the source of your control is or the nature of your "dmx transmitters", so it's hard to add much detail to a response. The generating source is using the ethernet protocol to transfer information that can be converted to DMX protocol. That source has to be able to generate signals for the 4 universes, whether they come out as Artnet signals or DMX signals.

If you have an Artnet to DMX interface device, it would be possible to make it wireless like you would any other network device. You would be using your wi-fi in your facility in a "range extender" mode. This link may help explain it to you.

Wireless DMX is movement of a signal stream that is already (obviously) converted from channel levels for particular addresses to the DMX protocol. That's an easy buy. I just had good luck in a show with these.
 
Joined
Jan 15, 2019
Location
San Jose
Artnet is a means to connect to a dmx generating device. It is the ethernet alternative to, say, a USB connection using D2XX, or a serial connection using RS232. You don't say what the source of your control is or the nature of your "dmx transmitters", so it's hard to add much detail to a response. The generating source is using the ethernet protocol to transfer information that can be converted to DMX protocol. That source has to be able to generate signals for the 4 universes, whether they come out as Artnet signals or DMX signals.

If you have an Artnet to DMX interface device, it would be possible to make it wireless like you would any other network device. You would be using your wi-fi in your facility in a "range extender" mode. This link may help explain it to you.

Wireless DMX is movement of a signal stream that is already (obviously) converted from channel levels for particular addresses to the DMX protocol. That's an easy buy. I just had good luck in a show with these.
Thank you so much for the reply.

Here's some gear info for you: I have two blackbox F1 G4s which are the transceivers for my dmx universe 1 & 2. As receivers, I have two Micro R512 G4s. I'm using a T2 board with Jands Vista 2, which should potentially support artnet through its ethernet port at the back.

So now my only question is: If the Blackbox transceivers that I'm using can support sending RDM/Artnet, but the receivers that I'm using only have a single DMX out, that would mean that I need a different system in order to transmit and receive the signal and be able to decode it into multiple universes of DMX?

Again, thank you so much, it really helped a bunch!
 

ChrisB_SanDiego

Active Member
Joined
Apr 6, 2017
Location
San Diego, CA
A couple questions...

What kind of console do you have? Can it output directly to ArtNet?
What kind of fixtures are you trying to plug in? Can they directly take in ArtNet via rj45? How many parameters does each mover take? and more importantly are those parameters worth the added cost of getting that fixture on a separate universe?
How are you currently talking to the lights? Does it need to be wireless?

ArtNet is a great system but there is a lot of ways you can do this, and there are a lot of issues you can run into is wireless is required... e.g. signal loss, latency... so care needs to be used in placement, and selection.

if the board outputs ArtNet than you could just go from a router into a dmx bridge:

https://www.elationlighting.com/4cast-dmx-bridge

Other options could be using a range extender to a ArtNet node.

It all depends on what you have and what it's capabilities are. If nothing spits out ArtNet, than you have you convert to ArtNet, and if nothing recieves ArtNet than you have to convert back from ArtNet, making a rather reduntant (and expensive) setup, when you could have just gone wireless DMX as @dbaxter mentioned.

If all you want to do is utilize all of the channels on your fixtures, can you just add a node and make a separate universe for that/ those fixtures?
 
Joined
Jan 15, 2019
Location
San Jose
A couple questions...

What kind of console do you have? Can it output directly to ArtNet?
What kind of fixtures are you trying to plug in? Can they directly take in ArtNet via rj45? How many parameters does each mover take? and more importantly are those parameters worth the added cost of getting that fixture on a separate universe?
How are you currently talking to the lights? Does it need to be wireless?

ArtNet is a great system but there is a lot of ways you can do this, and there are a lot of issues you can run into is wireless is required... e.g. signal loss, latency... so care needs to be used in placement, and selection.

if the board outputs ArtNet than you could just go from a router into a dmx bridge:

https://www.elationlighting.com/4cast-dmx-bridge

Other options could be using a range extender to a ArtNet node.

It all depends on what you have and what it's capabilities are. If nothing spits out ArtNet, than you have you convert to ArtNet, and if nothing recieves ArtNet than you have to convert back from ArtNet, making a rather reduntant (and expensive) setup, when you could have just gone wireless DMX as @dbaxter mentioned.

If all you want to do is utilize all of the channels on your fixtures, can you just add a node and make a separate universe for that/ those fixtures?
I'm gonna copy and paste my gear stuff for you. None of my fixtures can take in rj45. Currently it's wireless, and there's not really a good way to hardwire everything without a huge loss of information over distance.

Here's some gear info for you: I have two blackbox F1 G4s which are the transceivers for my dmx universe 1 & 2. As receivers, I have two Micro R512 G4s. I'm using a T2 board with Jands Vista2, which should potentially support artnet through its ethernet port at the back.

Question for you: How much does the latency increase when you increase the amount of universes being transmitted?
 

Crisp image

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2017
Location
Eastern Victoria Australia
For each universe you will need a DMX feed to the first fixture in the chain. If you continue to use what you have you will need Tx (transmitter) and Rx (reveiver) (a transceiver is capable of transmitting and recieving signal) or you could output artnet via the ethernet port to a node and then either run your wireless from the node in the 2 universe or directly from the node via dmx chain from fixture to fixture or depending on the node a combination of both (2 hard wired and2 wireless)
I hope this helps.
Regards
Geoff
 
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Harrison Hohnholt

Active Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2015
Location
Carlstadt, NJ
The Big thing you need to think about is what is going into the transmitter and what is coming out. You are sending Art-Net but selecting which universe you want to be transmitted.

That means you only have one universe coming into your transmitter. So on your receiving end, you will only have one universe.

This means there is really no reason for it to be converted back into Art-Net. You lose the advantage of sending multiple universes down the line. You can always use an adapter to change over to RJ45 connectors if you like.
 

ChrisB_SanDiego

Active Member
Joined
Apr 6, 2017
Location
San Diego, CA
Question for you: How much does the latency increase when you increase the amount of universes being transmitted?
Virtually none on a cabled run. Rather the issue with latency arises when using multiple transceiver systems, and differing wireless systems transfer at varying rates.
(ex. if your board only outputs dmx and you had 4 ports on the board, and each port went dmx to a separate transceiver, the fixtures would have a varying degree of latency... which may or may not be an issue depending on what you're programming: strobe = yes, time code = probably, long fades = not really.)



As for your solution, I think you're setup is basically there already. If I were you, I'd get the W-DMX BlackBox F-2 G5 which supports 4 universes.

Go from the T2 to an unmanaged switch (Optional but I like being able to tie in and diagnose right at the board). From the switch to the F-2. And then convert F-1's to be receivers instead of transmitting.

you'll have to enable Art-Net output in Vista.
I don't see a benefit from going to a different system when you already have the majority of everything you need. Just make sure everything is in the 5.8ghz range to enable the 4 universes on the F-2.

I'd call wirelessdmx and verify that will work anyways, but that's what the manuals show.



Also, as a side note, back to your original post, in this situation Art-Net is just a container (I know, extremely oversimplified) that's sending out all of your dmx info all at once, and the transceivers are acting as nodes converting Art-Net into dmx.

If you want to learn more about Art-Net, here is an easy to read pdf made by the creators of it, Artistic License:
http://www.artisticlicence.com/WebSiteMaster/User Guides/art-net.pdf

and if you are really new to lighting networks in general or just interested in learning more, I highly recommend Show Networks and Control Systems by John Huntington:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/0692958738/?tag=controlbooth-20