Conventional Fixtures Asbestos?

Just out of academic interest, what is the likelihood that this old scoop has asbestos insulated wires? It's part of an abatement project anyway so it will be treated as asbestos regardless. Probably some more photos from this film studio to come later. Thanks,
 

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That is asbestos. I have an inventory full of it. Its not dangerous to work worth unless you try to strip it and kick it up into the air.
 
Just out of academic interest, what is the likelihood that this old scoop has asbestos insulated wires? It's part of an abatement project anyway so it will be treated as asbestos regardless. Probably some more photos from this film studio to come later. Thanks,

It's Asbestos for sure. It's just about all there was for instrument leads and twofers when I started in the industry.
 
I also concur..its Asbestos....have seen and handled enough of those style wires in my day..



-w
 
Footer replied while I was typing my response.

Asbestos cord like this in not dangerous ONLY if it is inert and doesn't move. If it gets bumped or you reposition fixtures, you will release asbestos particulate matter into the air. I would immediately remove all of the fixtures with this type of wiring to a closet and close the door. Wear a mask while doing so.
 
Just out of academic interest, what is the likelihood that this old scoop has asbestos insulated wires? It's part of an abatement project anyway so it will be treated as asbestos regardless. Probably some more photos from this film studio to come later. Thanks,

Likely. There was another heat wire available that wasn't asbestos at the time available but I'm not aware of it ever catching on. In other words, likely. There was also different types of asbestos heat wire on the market, some less fuzzy in flaking than others - hard to tell from the photo.

(If student you cannot be doing the below or the other advice.)

Instead of transporting the fixture, I would clip it's whip & plug and bag it where it hangs. Wear a mask, and brush your hair well before you de-mask or leave the area, change your clothes and wash up well before you get too far afterwards. Bag your clothes for immediate washing (see below in why.) To say the least in more options yet such as a HEPA suite I belive it's called. As a concet, don't try to move about too rapidly while doing so as any dust that's already fallen off would than get stirred up especially in a catwalk the above is important for especially. Plug is not worth your time or movement of the whip in saving. Literally un-plug, put whip in a plastic bag and cut the whip at the strain relief. Move onto the next fixture. Tag the bag once sealed for proper disposal. I pay for such a proper disposal company, given it's a school, they no doubt have resources or given the asbestos abatement can throw the bags in with the service call if assuming you did it instead of what they do. Your fixture is now safe for transport to storage/abatement/trash/rewiring. Once the whip is gone it isn't much dangerous any longer at least to moving the fixture about over what dust is already in the area. The fixture is now more safe than the area it was in if catwalk or fine if in a fairly clean stage - as safe as the stage is itself.

This as opposed to moving the entire fixture which will stir up the dust and bring flakes from the whip about to where ever that closet might be as you move it about. If ambitious remove the lamp cap while hanging and clip whiring between strain relief and base and just about all of it is now gone. This would be my next step in removing as much as possible. Lamp base area is now free of it unless it has an asbesos pad under the base that normally would have to be scraped off, and the limited amount in the strain relief if there is one instead of a knot and bushings. If knot and bushings, all asbestos except perhaps the lampholder insulator is now gone. Otherwise what's inside the cap is not moved about and is not an immediate concern in moving the fixture as needed.

At that point when the whip is removed, those doing asbestos rebatement might not just trash the entire fixture as likely to do in now having to buy new lights. (Or if wanting to save the lights, this clipping of the whip and opening of the lamp cap to remove the rest could be requested - less dumpster fill also for a bit more in labor.) Otherwise if not touching nutting as fair enough, send the lights say into the abestos abatement people for them to remove, vaccume, wash and clean what's left of the heat wire inside of the fixture or some lighting shops can do this, than have a lighting shop rewire the scoop for you. I would think it would be much less expensive to do this. Lampholder no doubt either needs replacement or resurfacing anyway at this point, no doubt you would need a strain relief and ground installed etc... sending the fixture to a lighting shop so you are not liable for it would probably be cost effective as opposed to buying new.

Overall the surface area of a wire has less asbestos than an insulation duct or water pipe, on the other hand it is moved more. A concern not as much by way of volume but because of its flexibility. Larger problem I think than the actual whip is the entire theater especially where if catwalk it was hung or them cornes of the theater not as well claned. Floor pockets, footlights etc and elsewhere where dust collects as not as easy to sweep and clean. Have a sprung floor... them grooves under the origional floor boards under such a dance floor has asbestos that in theory needs to be cleaned out as a concept. That much extent of it's going to be everywhere in the theater as a concept beyond tiles, duct, dust and in general in the glide rails of a desk in the stage manager's office. Some places less important to clean than others but still it's a concept that the entire teater has asbestos dust anywhere in it and all it takes is one micron you breathe in perhaps in making it's way to your cancer. Not like radiation or mercury where it's exposure, more like smoking in ticking time bomb that will or won't go off and last year or ten surviving doing mean this year you won't as opposed to a virus either. Such places by way of asbestos abatement I would be more concerned about after the whips are clipped and even if you have to store and sit on the fixtures a while not have to replace them completely. After the Asbestos people are done perhaps have ServiceMaster or some cleaning company further clean the place as a thought so as to ensure it's all gone as much possible.


For me mostly it's the dust in the air after the fixture problem is solved that I have problems with. The fixtures have little added to for effect given their size, verses say the last 40 or 100 years of fallen off dust in the air in general as a concept. Changing the whips without cleaning the areas where the lighting gear was changed - this and past beyond it gear in dust deposits already small enough to get stirred up in the air is much more troublesome for me than a fixture whip.

That dust from past generations of use is over any cord whip still there what I would be most concerned about and it's going to be all over the theater. Sweep the floor and it's raised up again, this verses a whip that's easily clipped and fixture no longer unsafe. Past generations of these fixtures and others in use with all the asbestos that has flaked off all about the theater... have fun going to work in the morning given that thought. Someone brings in an asbestos whipped old fixture to me and contract or not in re-wiring it, that whip gets cut and bagged. I don't need further exposure given in the past like 94' I at one point didn't know any better and found an entire spool of asbestos heat wire about the theater and proceeded to rewire fixtures with it - this beyond past exposure with using such gear in the industry. So far lucky and think past the time I might get cancer from a lot of exposure in the past. A lot of it in noting the haze in the air with them little reflective spakles to it. So far lucky and hopefully past my years later it might have been sufficient exposure and I might have been succeptable to it from the exposure.

If interested, I believe a few years ago I posted a reply from Dr.Doom from Stagecraft on this question about asbestos abatement and the dangers. Do a search. My own practices have changed some over the years based on it.

Used to work in a theater with an asbestos fire curtain that was painted and all kinds of pipe work throughout it covered with the stuff. Sit down on the toilet and people moving about on stage above you, you can just see the little silver / reflective flakes falling off the pipe above you. Or in other places with catwalks where the more you moved about, the more you would get that reflective cloud stirred up about you.
 
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"The major forms of asbestos used commercially were chrysotile, amosite and crocidolite" (from a state of Washington website).

Many years ago, I was at a theatre with a large inventory of instruments, including scoops, that were wired with this. I had a sample lab-tested and it was Chrysotile. It went away pretty soon after proving what it was. :cool:

I still see little to nothing out there that notes it being used specifically for instrument wiring, or even for electrical wiring insulation in general. There are still theatres out there that have it in the air, including K-12 schools, from both personal observation and anecdotally.
 
A theatre I work at has asbestos insulation on parts of the A/C and apparently some beams. The A/C pipes are blocked off and there's a sign to call the building safety officer before touching or working near them. Haven't seen the beams, so they must be in the walls/ ceilings. Interesting thing is though the A/C insulation looks like it would be falling apart and a big problem, they've had all kinds of experts in testing and it's totally fine as long as no one touches it (so it's blocked off several feet away).
 
The dust is the problem which is why when we had an asbestos ceiling removed at our church the company doing the removal sprayed a fine mist of water on each piece before removing it. They also installed air locks had full suits with gloves and boots and duct taped the cuffs
 
Thanks everyone. Pretty much confirmed my suspicion. Not to worry though, the whole room is undergoing abatement for a separate much more friable asbestos source so these fixtures will be properly handled by a professional abatement company. I was just there doing survey work for a renovation job and was curious.

This actually is not a theater, it is a specialty film studio, I am told that the 30' x 30' room has more than $700,000 of film equipment in it currently and that replacing the old scoops will hardly burst the budget. Amazing to have such nice gear and still be using a spaghetti board. Thanks again, always know I'll get the right answer here.
 

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