Backdrop Painting Challenges

[JuniorKickstart]

Hello,

I'm the Production Manager/Technical Director for a children's theatre company and we're looking to use a painted backdrop in our next show. Painted backdrops have been discussed here a couple of times, but I have a few questions specific to my situation that searching through the forums hasn't answered, and I was hoping to get some help. For context, the drop is 10' x 25', and will be hung off of a pipe and drape system (five uprights).

My challenges are that I'm not much of a sewer and my paint space time is limited. Not being much of a sewer, I'd rather have Rose Brand or a similar company sew the drop, but I'm worried what will happen if the drop is sewn and then painted. I also worry about being able to size the drop before painting, as I cannot screw or staple into the floor, which seems like a prerequisite for the sizing methods I've found. I don't mind if the drop shrinks a bit, but if it wrinkles or doesn't shrink uniformly (causing warping in the design) then I have a problem.

If I make the drop out of canvas instead of muslin, can I paint it already sewn and without sizing it? And should I just suck it up and sew the drop myself? I'm very intimidated by the prospect of sewing a 25' long hem.

Thanks so much for your time and help.

 

[RonHebbard]

Hello,

I'm the Production Manager/Technical Director for a children's theatre company and we're looking to use a painted backdrop in our next show. Painted backdrops have been discussed here a couple of times, but I have a few questions specific to my situation that searching through the forums hasn't answered, and I was hoping to get some help. For context, the drop is 10' x 25', and will be hung off of a pipe and drape system (five uprights).

My challenges are that I'm not much of a sewer and my paint space time is limited. Not being much of a sewer, I'd rather have Rose Brand or a similar company sew the drop, but I'm worried what will happen if the drop is sewn and then painted. I also worry about being able to size the drop before painting, as I cannot screw or staple into the floor, which seems like a prerequisite for the sizing methods I've found. I don't mind if the drop shrinks a bit, but if it wrinkles or doesn't shrink uniformly (causing warping in the design) then I have a problem.

If I make the drop out of canvas instead of muslin, can I paint it already sewn and without sizing it? And should I just suck it up and sew the drop myself? I'm very intimidated by the prospect of sewing a 25' long hem.

Thanks so much for your time and help.

@JuniorKickstart Welcome to Control Booth, there are worse places to be. I'm most definitely neither a painter nor seamstress thus I'll butt out and optimistically someone will be along with useful answers for you shortly.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard

 

[Van]

These are some valid concerns.
A. Sewing a 25' hem is exactly like sewing a 6" hem, it just takes longer. Use a good flat ruler, Consistently fold over the hem, iron it into place, pin it, start sewing. Snap a lot of chalk lines if you want, but in blue not red, red stains cotton and won't come out.

B. As far as the stretching and stapling is concerned; Buy a bunch of 1x4 and build a really big perimeter frame. Lay Bogus paper, or rosin paper on the ground, lay the frame on the ground then staple the drop to the frame. Be sure to leave a bit more slack that usual so the fabric doesn't snap the frame when is begins to size. The problem with this technicque is that if you paint all the way to the edge, you will wind up with a bit of a line where the edge of the frame is as your paint brush hits the bump or transition to the solid face of the frame from the soft stretchy face of the fabric.

Canvass, Muslin, either one is going to size and Cavass is stronger, meaning it'll pull harder on your frame. Use muslin, it's cheaper and easier to sew.

Oh, Yeah, Welcome Aboard!

 

[kicknargel]

Don't be scared of the sewing. My first time on a sewing machine was making drops, with internal seams and everything. The thing is, because the drops will size, the stitching is very forgiving. It's more important to staple it down to the finished size / shape; it's going to shrink to that. (That said, Rosebrand is shockingly affordable on labor for these. They can do them so fast.)

If you can't build Van's frame, you could paint on synthetic muslin instead. Doesn't size. Which does make the stitching more important.

 

[microstar]

Hello,

I'm the Production Manager/Technical Director for a children's theatre company and we're looking to use a painted backdrop in our next show. Painted backdrops have been discussed here a couple of times, but I have a few questions specific to my situation that searching through the forums hasn't answered, and I was hoping to get some help. For context, the drop is 10' x 25', and will be hung off of a pipe and drape system (five uprights).

My challenges are that I'm not much of a sewer and my paint space time is limited. Not being much of a sewer, I'd rather have Rose Brand or a similar company sew the drop, but I'm worried what will happen if the drop is sewn and then painted. I also worry about being able to size the drop before painting, as I cannot screw or staple into the floor, which seems like a prerequisite for the sizing methods I've found. I don't mind if the drop shrinks a bit, but if it wrinkles or doesn't shrink uniformly (causing warping in the design) then I have a problem.

If I make the drop out of canvas instead of muslin, can I paint it already sewn and without sizing it? And should I just suck it up and sew the drop myself? I'm very intimidated by the prospect of sewing a 25' long hem.

Thanks so much for your time and help.

For something that small, I would get a quote for a digitally printed drop from Rose Brand and others. Then you don't have to do anything except supply the design and hang it up when it arrives! If you have to invest the time and materials to buy the paint, build the frame, and then do the painting, it might come out to your advantage, depending on how you value your labor.

 

[MarshallPope]

If you don't mind a bit of a gloss finish and you are interested in the printing route, you could look at billboard companies for printing. In my experience, that comes out a good bit cheaper than Rose Brand or similar.

 

[JonCarter]

Once I needed a new curved cyc. Ordered a bolt of 6' x 60 yd muslin and sweet-talked the costume folks to cut it in three pieces, sew them together and sew a chain pocket on one side. They grumped a bit, but did the job. (Very well, I might add.) We put the chain in it and hung it, then lowered it to the floor and with about six of us, primed it while raising it. It dried just fine. We then lowered it again and painted it while raising it. Worked fine. For a painted drop you'd have to put it on the floor after priming, snap a grid on it, cartoon the designer's work on it and paint it.

 

[microstar]

If you don't mind a bit of a gloss finish and you are interested in the printing route, you could look at billboard companies for printing. In my experience, that comes out a good bit cheaper than Rose Brand or similar.[/QUO

The OP could visit the www.echodgraphics.com website and look for their mesh banners. I've had two done for use as "painted" scrims and they worked great. Inexpensive and the company turns them around very quickly. Received both of mine before the due date. You need to supply a very high resolution graphic if you want "realistic". The only drawback is the plastic mesh which is a little on the shiny side and it is nearly impossible to get the creases out from being folded for shipping. But for the price, hard to complain. They have an instant calculator for pricing/shipping too. Important note: they close for all Jewish holidays, so watch your tech dates!
Our local sign company couldn't come remotely close to their pricing.

 

[JuniorKickstart]

Hi everyone thank you so much for your help! I feel much better about going ahead with the sewing, and trying out new things is part of why I love my job.

 

[Chase P.]

A couple points that don't seem to have been mentioned:

If the drop is being hung from pipe and drape, It'll need several top pockets (for the horizontals) with dead spaces between them (for the uprights). Since they'll be sewn in the spacing of those supports will need to be determined first. In my experience, where the horizontals meets the uprights using standard drape, there's always a lump. It'd add work, but sewing in a piece of jute webbing and ties at the center of it (instead of the traditional top) the top of the drop would stick up just a hair above the horizontals of the pipe and drape, thereby hiding the framing system.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned flame treatment. Both the short height of the drop mentioned (10 feet) and the use of pipe and drape make me wonder if this performance is held in a non-traditional venue. I've run into several fire inspectors in such venues who are sticklers for the flame certification. It seems to be one of the few things they can wrap their heads around when the venue is used out of it's normal setup, making it a target. Mind you, I'm not complaining, I've seen accidents, and I'm a total convert to meeting any restrictions they feel like throwing at me. Having the drop commercially produced means the OP can require a flame cert tag sewn into it. Options exist for Inherently Flame Retardant material as well, meaning if they keep the drop around (as we tend to do, right?) and re-paint it years down the line, they'll still be covered.

None of this is meant to scare the OP off from DIYing this, just things to keep in mind to avoid surprises. Kudos for trying new things with this company, and break a leg!

 

[Van]

A couple points that don't seem to have been mentioned:

If the drop is being hung from pipe and drape, It'll need several top pockets (for the horizontals) with dead spaces between them (for the uprights). Since they'll be sewn in the spacing of those supports will need to be determined first. In my experience, where the horizontals meets the uprights using standard drape, there's always a lump. It'd add work, but sewing in a piece of jute webbing and ties at the center of it (instead of the traditional top) the top of the drop would stick up just a hair above the horizontals of the pipe and drape, thereby hiding the framing system.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned flame treatment. Both the short height of the drop mentioned (10 feet) and the use of pipe and drape make me wonder if this performance is held in a non-traditional venue. I've run into several fire inspectors in such venues who are sticklers for the flame certification. It seems to be one of the few things they can wrap their heads around when the venue is used out of it's normal setup, making it a target. Mind you, I'm not complaining, I've seen accidents, and I'm a total convert to meeting any restrictions they feel like throwing at me. Having the drop commercially produced means the OP can require a flame cert tag sewn into it. Options exist for Inherently Flame Retardant material as well, meaning if they keep the drop around (as we tend to do, right?) and re-paint it years down the line, they'll still be covered.

None of this is meant to scare the OP off from DIYing this, just things to keep in mind to avoid surprises. Kudos for trying new things with this company, and break a leg!

If the Fabric is treated with or the Paint is treated with something along the lines of Flamex or FR-1 paint additive, and a 12"x 12" swatch, treated in the same manner as the drop it attached, for testing purposes, you're covered. In most jurisdictions for something small I'd be surprised if the subject ever came up and if it did, most likely the inspector would ask if the paint or drop had been treated or if it was IFR.
In my experience IFR fabrics tend to not paint so well

 

[kicknargel]

Chase's pipe and drape comments are good, depending on how much it matter that you hide the pipe. I would not want to do a pipe pocket at the top. The hidden ties method could work. Or do it regular and put some duvetyn or black gaff across the top. Yes, you'll always get a little pooching around the uprights.
2-Hidden-Sewn-Twill-Ties

In terms of flame retardant: yes, you should do it whether required or not. Van's right that IFR fabrics (like the poly mus I suggested before) don't take paint as well as natural muslin, but you can paint it. What you CAN'T paint is FR treated cotton muslin. The FR will leach out and ruin your day. One common method is to use a paint additive (like Rosco Flamex PA) in the base coat of paint. When done, flip the drop over and spray the back with an FR designed for natural fabrics (like Rosco Flamex NF).

 

[Tom Andrews]

A couple of points on flame retardant treatment: it's required, it's not really optional. Whether someone is actually there telling you to do it, that's a different story. The venue might require it but not tell you, the local fire inspector might not come around. It doesn't matter. If you're in a public assembly situation, it's required by code, and therefore by law.

Nick is right about the paint additive, then treating the whole drop from the back. Some people think that the paint additive is sufficient, but it's' not.

Good luck!

 

[Dionysus]

Hi everyone thank you so much for your help! I feel much better about going ahead with the sewing, and trying out new things is part of why I love my job.

First, again welcome to control booth... I haven't been to St Catherine's for a while (last time was for the Grand Canadian Steampunk Expo. a few years ago in Niagara-on-the-lake. Popped into St. Catherines the day before). Do you have any contacts at the Shaw Festival?

Hope you've been making out well on this, Im in London which is a bit away so I can't help so directly.

OSL (Ontario Staging Limited) is a more local alternative to Rose Brand, and may be cheaper. Then again as pointed out, sewing a drop isn't exactly rocket science but it does require a nice straight seam.

Also have to support most of which has been mentioned about fire rating the drop, it really is the best idea. The last thing you want is a giant flammable thing on stage if you can help it.

Cheers,
Steve.