Battery Question

icewolf08

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Is there such thing as a 1.5v rechargeable AA size lithium-ion battery? I would love to have a replacement for some NiMH batteries, as they don't perform so well in the cold. I could go with the straight Lithium batteries, but I would love to save some money and save waste.
 

Charc

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Feb 14, 2007
Is there such thing as a 1.5v rechargeable AA size lithium-ion battery? I would love to have a replacement for some NiMH batteries, as they don't perform so well in the cold. I could go with the straight Lithium batteries, but I would love to save some money and save waste.
By straight lithium do you mean Lithium-Polymer? I'm not familiar with straight lithium batteries. What application of cold use do you have anyways?
 

Charc

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Feb 14, 2007
I believe we have same cold application in the NE as he does over in Utah.
I believe they call it winter.
My theatre has forced hot air.

My house has forced hot air.

My car has forced hot air.

The outside doesn't have forced hot air, but I don't do theatre outside, or live outside. Now for those brief walks between heat? My iPod Shuffle has an internal battery. My cellphone has a battery pack, my watch has a watch battery.

What needs AAs?
 

icewolf08

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My theatre has forced hot air.
My house has forced hot air.
My car has forced hot air.
The outside doesn't have forced hot air, but I don't do theatre outside, or live outside. Now for those brief walks between heat? My iPod Shuffle has an internal battery. My cellphone has a battery pack, my watch has a watch battery.
What needs AAs?
Did it occur to you that there is life outside the theatre? I am going to keep you guessing for a while though, it is fun!

In any event, I don't really care what kind of lithium battery as long as it is 1.5v AA size and rechargeable, I want to know if such a thing exists.
 

Charc

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Did it occur to you that there is life outside the theatre? I am going to keep you guessing for a while though, it is fun!
In any event, I don't really care what kind of lithium battery as long as it is 1.5v AA size and rechargeable, I want to know if such a thing exists.
I've only ever had experience with NIMH versions, but at up to (what is it I have?) 2500 mAh, who can complain?

Edit:

Just checked, yep, 2500 mAh, but at 1.2 volts each? Weird... how does it work? haha.
 

icewolf08

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I've only ever had experience with NIMH versions, but at up to (what is it I have?) 2500 mAh, who can complain?
have you ever tried to use them in the cold? Ever wonder why people keep Alkalines in the fridge? It slows the reaction. This is great if you want to store the batteries, but try using them in the cold and they just don't work. So, the lithium batteries like the Energizer E2s work much better in the cold. So I want to know if there is a rechargeable that will work well in the cold.
 

Van

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From a website I came across just the other day

http://www.greenbatteries.com/libafa.html#Li-ion in AA


Are Lithium Ion batteries available in standard sizes like AA , C or D cell size?

No, Lithium-ion batteries are not available in standard sizes. We believe this is because it would be too easy for users to inadvertently put them in a charger not designed for Lithium-ion batteries creating a potentially dangerous situation. (If an alkaline battery is put into the wrong charger it might leak or even burst, but a lithium-ion battery put into a NiCd or NiMH charger not designed for lithium-ion, might ignite. Also, because Li-ion batteries operate at much higher voltage (typically 3.7V per cell) than the 1.2 to 1.5V of most cell batteries, designing a 1.5V lithium-ion cell would be expensive.

I was watching a show on the history channel the other, all about batteries. I t was fascinating! A couple of students and a professor from Tulsa University, were awarded an US patent last year for a Nano-Li -ion battery. Even at the nano level a Li-ion battery produces 3vdc. The Professor said, " of course at that size, we're talking about Pico-amps" but it's still 3 volts. Amazing.
If you get a chance to watch this show, do. It's fascinating, 'specially the part about them building these "nano-batteries".
 
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avkid

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Lithium Ion will soon be rendered obsolete by the newly improved Silver-Zinc batteries.
 

icewolf08

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Yeah, that doesn't help me now. Unless silver-zinc batteries are going to be released in 1.5V AA size in the next month.
 

fosstech

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I know someone makes Li-Polymer 9V batteries, but I can't remember the company off the top of my head. Sound got some for the old wireless clearcom and the Sennheiser wireless stuff. They require special chargers...somebody accidentally put one in one of the NiMH chargers and it got hot and swelled up a little and no longer held a charge. Don't know how well they do in the cold.

For the Shure mics, we just use the standard AA high-mAh NiMH batteries.
 

avkid

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Yeah, that doesn't help me now. Unless silver-zinc batteries are going to be released in 1.5V AA size in the next month.
I'm just saying that new things are coming.
 

JD

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North Wales PA
The real problem is that "per cell" voltage that Van mentioned. Different chemical reactions produce different voltages per cell. Since you can't have a "half a cell" your minimum battery voltage for any given type is one cell. Carbon batteries are 1.5 volts NiCads are 1.2 and Li's are 3.7 (ballpark voltages as they change with load, but basically "open circuit.")
 

kwotipka

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Just checked, yep, 2500 mAh, but at 1.2 volts each? Weird... how does it work? haha.
You will find that most of your rechargeable batteries are 1.2V and not the 1.5V "standard". It has to do with the chemistry in the cells. If you want a more detailed answer, I am sure I can dig up the info. Anton Bauer has a great .pdf (although a bit of a sales tool) on their battery technology for camera systems.
In the production world, there is nothing like watching the look of terror going across the audio dept when someone forgot to change the batteries in the CEO's wireless. That too is another reason NOT to use rechargeable batteries in long run, mission critical applications. I understand that batteries get pricey but do you really want your whole production to suffer because someone didn't want to spend a few bucks on fresh batteries at the beginning of each day?
Back when I was doing field audio for video, someone had come up with some replacement 9V battery cases that fit into a standard 9V compartment. They had a pigtail attached so you could hook them up to an external battery system.
(For those who need the details: Lectrosonic wireless transmitters in a portabrace kit along with the field mixer connected to a single battery (NP1) system. Used to send audio to the camera. If I have to explain it any more, you probably wouldn't understand the point anyway.)
Depending on your particular situation, you may be able to get away with other voltages.
DISCLAIMER HERE! Please check with the manufacturer before doing any of this because it could damage the gear, start a fire, destroy your love life, etc.
The voltage regulators found in many electronics are designed to take in a fairly stable DC voltage and convert them into a fixed output. Typically these are 15, 12, 5 or 3.3 VDC. The input on these regulators MAY BE as high as 30VDC. AGAIN CHECK BEFORE YOU DO ANYTHING THAT COULD DAMAGE YOUR GEAR. That said, some gear that is designed to work off of 9VDC can safely be powered by 13.8 volt camera batteries. There are tons of these out there along with a charging system that is specifically designed for that battery.
Depending on the size, weight, etc of your application, this may be a cheaper alternative then something like a 9V.
In the microprocessor projects I work on, those in the know discourage the use of 9V battery sources because of the low Ah capacity. In other words, they will drive a 5VDC regulator but not for long. In these cases, they recommend 4.5V right to the processor via 3 1.5V batteries or 4.8V via 4 1.2V rechargeables.
Now, if you really have to use rechargables for whatever reason, there are lots of battery analyzers out there that will simulate a load on the battery and give you a report of what kind of performance to expect out of it.
 

sloop

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Nov 12, 2007
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Indiana
After a little research....

No, Lithium-ion batteries are not available in standard sizes. It would be too easy for users to inadvertently put them in a charger not designed for Lithium-ion batteries creating a potentially dangerous situation. (If an alkaline battery is put into the wrong charger it might leak or even burst, but a lithium-ion battery put into a NiCd or NiMH charger not designed for lithium-ion, might ignite. Also, because Li-ion batteries operate at much higher voltage (typically 3.7V per cell) than the 1.2 to 1.5V of most cell batteries, designing a 1.5V lithium-ion cell would be expensive.
 

icewolf08

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From a website I came across just the other day
http://www.greenbatteries.com/libafa.html#Li-ion in AA
Are Lithium Ion batteries available in standard sizes like AA , C or D cell size?

No, Lithium-ion batteries are not available in standard sizes. We believe this is because it would be too easy for users to inadvertently put them in a charger not designed for Lithium-ion batteries creating a potentially dangerous situation. (If an alkaline battery is put into the wrong charger it might leak or even burst, but a lithium-ion battery put into a NiCd or NiMH charger not designed for lithium-ion, might ignite. Also, because Li-ion batteries operate at much higher voltage (typically 3.7V per cell) than the 1.2 to 1.5V of most cell batteries, designing a 1.5V lithium-ion cell would be expensive.
sloop said:
After a little research....

No, Lithium-ion batteries are not available in standard sizes. It would be too easy for users to inadvertently put them in a charger not designed for Lithium-ion batteries creating a potentially dangerous situation. (If an alkaline battery is put into the wrong charger it might leak or even burst, but a lithium-ion battery put into a NiCd or NiMH charger not designed for lithium-ion, might ignite. Also, because Li-ion batteries operate at much higher voltage (typically 3.7V per cell) than the 1.2 to 1.5V of most cell batteries, designing a 1.5V lithium-ion cell would be expensive.
hmmm deja-vu. You didn't really read the whole thread did ya sloop? Thanks though.
 

icewolf08

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Ok, so on to further research, what is the best cold weather AA battery, and is there a rechargeable that will fit the bill?