behringer x32

Neo, just shut up. We've all heard the babel before about blatant rip-offs. Show the lawsuits that required a cease and desist. The suits that actually went through the courts and found behringer guilty. Otherwise you are just slandering a company who in the last couple years has been moving in a direction to change not only the quality of their gear but, also change how the industry perceives them. Yes they have DJ level gear that can't with stand road abuse. Is it marketed in a way to make you think it could? No, is it the right tool for the job in most cases? yeah. I find that when you talk about a product (the X32) but haven't touched one. Oh and you don't need to buy one to test one out. you show just how ignorant and full of slander you really are. I'm sorry there are sound engineers with a lot more experience and quite a bit more respect in the industry than you saying the exact opposite. In fact as far as I know you may be a high school kid who's just mad because someone else told him or her that behringer is bad (notice the generic blanket statement, these are almost always wrong).

the discussions on a true sound forum which cater to large production companies, weekend warriors, and the guys designing gear have pretty much voiced the concerns about quality, they've also had members testing out the features and the claims behringer makes for the console and quite honestly it has excelled or met all of them. Some big names working in companies much larger than I probably ever will have stated this will be the low cost digital console to beat. They even suggest its a runner for any console 10k or less.
 
Once again. It is 2012.
Read the second sentence in regards to the Tech Awards.

Tech Award Process: "Nominees are selected in 27 categories of Technical Achievement and Creative Achievement. Eligible nominees are those projects or products that, in the opinion of the Nominating Panel, represent superior accomplishment in their respective fields. "

All the Best,
Joe Sanborn
Manager, Channel Marketing
MUSIC Group
BEHRINGER

Yes, it is 2012. I addressed this specifically, release failure statistics for the x32 as compared to others in the industry, from an outside independent company.



Also, to quote myself from before on the MIDAS issue,

"Anecdotally, I have three colleagues who have had three separate pro2 or pro2c's phantom power fail mid show, and refuse to come back until the whole console and stage box was rebooted."

Now this could be a software issue and not a hardware issue, but honestly when it comes to the X32 it's the software I worry about. Yamaha consoles are not my favorite to use, but the software is rock solid, fast, and predictable. Anyone can throw together an FPGA and some preamps, it's making it all work together that separates ProTools from other recording systems, Apple from Dell, etc.
 
Wow this got pretty vicious since I looked at it last. All I know is I've worked with some of behringers newer stuff and I thought it wasn't half bad. Are there better options? Sure, but not necessarily for the same price. And it certainly wasn't the end of the world when I had to use their stuff.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
The point is why buy equipment that is admitted to be sub-par? You can buy "professional" grade equipment from other manufactures and still not pay a whole bunch of cash. A&H and Mackie have done this for years. They enable a bunch of venues and those just starting out to have a quality kit for not alot of cash, and you know it will work.

I have just pointed out what everyone else who has been burned by Behringer already knows. Or, do only particular opinions matter around here? He wants to sell stuff... so it's pretty clear what his agenda is. Helping those members of this board I'm pretty sure is pretty low in comparison to his agenda of making money.

And, he has YET to provide us with one "big name" who desires to have Behringer consoles used on their gigs. I'm just asking for *one* bit of factual information that isn't from a glossy brochure that can be quantified in the real world, and not just from a few dozen people at some trade show where the "winners" could very well be paid for by some sponsorship fee or something.

Just *one* band. One touring company. Heck, ONE singer. That's all.

If facts this simple are difficult to get out of their sales rep, how are they going to be about their warranties? I'm just trying to get people to actually use their brains instead of believing a sales pitch


Here is your BIG name: Dweezil Zappa or Zappa Plays Zappa. They tour internationally with a SAC system utilizing Behringer ADA8000 for their input and output. ALL the sound you hear when you see their shows is going through Behringer gear.

....And most professional lump Mackie into the same pile as Behringer, I know I do.

Finally, if you bought a C-2 thinking it would sound as good as a KM 185 you have not been around this industry long. They are both small cardoid condensers in a silver shell. One costs a grand, the other costs 60 bucks. I don't think you would be able to find a single person out there who says they are actually comparable in sound quality. Also, that mic also looks a lot like the 451, so are you saying AKG is also ripping off the 185?
 
Here is your BIG name: Dweezil Zappa or Zappa Plays Zappa. They tour internationally with a SAC system utilizing Behringer ADA8000 for their input and output. ALL the sound you hear when you see their shows is going through Behringer gear.

....And most professional lump Mackie into the same pile as Behringer, I know I do.

Finally, if you bought a C-2 thinking it would sound as good as a KM 185 you have not been around this industry long. They are both small cardoid condensers in a silver shell. One costs a grand, the other costs 60 bucks. I don't think you would be able to find a single person out there who says they are actually comparable in sound quality. Also, that mic also looks a lot like the 451, so are you saying AKG is also ripping off the 185?

Hi Kyle,
That is great, I was unaware Dweezil Zappa's tour was using the ADA8000s'.

The X32 is two months into it's launch and we are just starting to get some larger tours interested in the X32.
Matt Breunig Monitor Engineer for the Killers is working with us as an endorsee of the X32.
We are speaking to several other engineers and want to point out these people are approaching us, after checking out the X32 independently.
I should be able to share others in near future, but as I said we only recently launched this product.

Thanks for the support!

Joe Sanborn
Manager, Channel Marketing
MUSIC Group
BEHRINGER
 
Hi Guys,
Looking back I think the conversation shifted when the X16 was discussed in an earlier post.

I have to point out we would be bringing a very different, and better solution to the market.
- The Mackie DL1608 is lacking, an Ultranet 16 channel discreet monitoring solution
- 16 x 16 disreet recording via USB vs. stereo main mix only
- Midas designed mic pre amps, as in the X32, which sound amazing

So all in all a very different solution. We are brining more "bang for your buck", with a better feature set.

Uli's post: X16 Preview
We like to share with you a preview of our new X16, which is based on the X32 digital mixer.

The iPad/PC based digital mixer includes 16 Midas-designed preamps, Ethernet connection for a wireless router, Ultranet for our P16 Personal Monitor system and also a bi-directional 16-channel USB recording interface. Like the X32, it will be remote controllable via iPad and PC (iXControl, XControl).

The unit is also rack and floor mountable for fixed installations.

Aside from the reduced channel count (16 inputs, 8 outputs) it has the same DSP engine and functionailty of the X32.

Delivery is targeted for Q2 2013 and the estimated price will be around US$ 1000.

Comments are appreciated.

Uli
(end Uli's post)

I hope it helps clarify.

Joe Sanborn
Manager, Channel Marketing
MUSIC Group
BEHRINGER
 
Hi Guys,
I wanted to share a post that Uli Behringer posted on Sound Forums, which addresses some of the questions brought up in the past few days.

IP: See Sound Forums post - Answer 51
Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A - Page 3
(Uli's Post):
Once again thank you for your question. This is an often asked question and frankly has led to criticism over the years.

The simple answer is that we have for many years considered our products to be followers of market trends and have designed them accordingly. Our product strategy has been to introduce products into categories where there is proven market demand and win based on our value proposition. That strategy has spawned many products whose visual appearance “mimics” that of the market leaders in many segments.

Also we do listen to our customers as this has been and will always be a huge part of our philosophy. In fact it has formed our company motto: "We hear you". We listen when customers tell us what they want and they do this often to a very detailed extent: "We'd like you to make an amp like this brand, but with these features and this look but can you make it at this price?" And we do listen to our customers.

Using ideas from other competitors is perfectly legal as long as you don't infringe on patents, trademarks, etc. and again what the law permits and what the public deem acceptable often differs greatly.

How many guitars look like Fender Strats? How many cars or phones look alike?

Frankly every manufacturer becomes inspired by other competitors and this is how the world works. When we attend trade shows we often see other manufacturers "borrow" our designs, and where legal we have no issue with it.

One may legitimately ask, “How close is too close?” when it comes to appearance. Everyone may have a different personal opinion on the topic but there are rules in law and trade practice that govern what is referred to as “trade dress”. A product’s form, shape and control placement can be protected by a Design Patent if the manufacturer believes that these are defining features that are unique. In that case other manufacturers cannot make a product that shares the same features.
However if these are not unique or protected features, then everyone is free to use those ideas.

Our intent is to make great products that are affordable and intuitive to use. Sometimes that means that the industrial design will follow the well-established protocol for that type of product. Other times it means we must start with a clean sheet of paper and do things differently.
Examples of the latter are our Eurocom line of installed products, the iNuke power amps series, our new Q series mixers and of course our new X32 digital mixer. I have been largely involved in the design of those products and all have been designed to be unique to the extent that they are even covered by multiple design patent applications in my own name.

As a fan of great industrial design, it has always been my dream to build products that set us apart from others. This dream is about to be realized with the opening of our new Design Center of Excellence in Manchester, UK later this summer.
Headed by award-winning designer Mark Harman Powell, who brings senior design expertise from BMW, Jaguar, Land Rover and JBL, the team will be responsible for setting design direction for all our products.
Great design is no less important than features and reliability so we are investing heavily here.

CEO
MUSIC Group
MUSIC Group - About Us
(end of Uli's post)

Also take a look at:
Posts 51, 52 and 54 which address a few other topics of interest:
http://soundforums.net/varsity/4299-uli-behringer-music-group-q-3.html

I have also asked some of our guys from the Midas team to answer questions in regards to the Midas Pro 2.

I hope it helps with some of the questions raised.

Joe Sanborn
Manager, Channel Marketing
MUSIC Group
BEHRINGER
 
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Anecdotally, I have three colleagues who have had three separate pro2 or pro2c's phantom power fail mid show, and refuse to come back until the whole console and stage box was rebooted.

Hello,

My name is Kyle Chirnside, I am the Customer support managerfor Midas/Klark Teknik in LV, NV. Please have your colleagues contact me or Frank Heinrich listed on the MIDAS site about their issues. These are things we havent heard of before and would like to research. My information is below.

Kind regards,


CHIRNSIDE Kyle
Manager, Customer Technical
MUSIC Group Services NV Inc.
Tel: +1 702 800 8290 ext 5714
Mobile: +1 702 371 2328
Email: [email protected]
Web: Midas Consoles | Klark Teknik | Turbosound - Professional Loudspeaker Systems
 
Hello Conrtol Booth folks,

I am Kyle from MIDAS / KLARK TEKNIK. If you have any support questions, please feel free to ask.

Just a little background about me, I was a touring FOH engineer for 17 years, I have been doing and engaged in show production for 25 years. I have used and abused MIDAS and every other console imaginable in a live setting for a long time. When the artists I worked for could afford a desk, I used a XL4. MIDAS approached me when the XL8 was in a BETA format, I wanted to take it out so bad, but the rental price at the time was out of my artists range. This put me first in line for the release of the PRO6. I was the First American to tour with this desk, world wide. When Music Group aquired the MIDAS and KLARK brands, I was skeptical as any one else.

I was just recently removed from the road to relocate to LV to head up the US office for Customer support and training for MIDAS/KLARK TEKNIK/TURBOSOUND. Being here and working directly with all the brands, I understand the family. Mr. Behringer saw the gold in the MIDAS touch, him and his team have stepped up support and production from all the brands in THE MUSIC GROUP. I could not ask for a better position, for a better company or a cooler CEO that can answer great threads. He truely cares about his customer service, and professional products.

Kind regards,


CHIRNSIDE Kyle
Manager, Customer Technical
MUSIC Group Services NV Inc.
Tel: +1 702 800 8290 ext 5714
Mobile: +1 702 371 2328
[FONT=Calibri,sans-serif][FONT=Arial,sans-serif]Email: [FONT=Arial,sans-serif][email protected][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri,sans-serif][FONT=Arial,sans-serif]Web: [FONT=Arial,sans-serif]www.midasconsoles.com[/FONT][FONT=Arial,sans-serif] | [/FONT][FONT=Arial,sans-serif]www.klarkteknik.com[/FONT][/FONT] | www.turbosound.com [/FONT]
 
I think it's appropriate to juxtapose the "Old Behringer" with the "Music Group Behringer".

I can only go on what I have been told by JoeSanborn as to what the Music Group Behringer will look like, but I am interested to see which direction the company takes over the course of the next few years. There are certainly a lot of variables that go into deciding which manufacturer's products to sell, but one of the larger ones will be their support. Regardless of what anyone's opinion of Behringer is, I think everyone who reads this thread should realize just how really, really easy Behringer is making it to get a direct line of communication with them for support.

It is well within everyone's capability here at CB to call Behringer's support line. If, for whatever the reason, I called that number and didn't get my problem solved, I know I would feel comfortable calling Joe Sanborn and that he could point me in the right direction. There's value in having that kind of open relationship with a manufacturer, both for whoever is buying the console and for whoever is selling that console to that customer. Same goes for Midas. I know KyleChirnside has only one post, but that one post is enough for me to feel comfortable calling and saying, "Hey -- I've really got a problem with ________ here. What can we do or who do I need to get in touch with to get this taken care of?"

JoeSanborn and KyleChirnside, I hope both of you are not strangers here to CB in the future. I've gotten pretty good at finding phone numbers for customer suppport lines on many manufacturer's websites, but it really is invaluable to know that in addition to those, there are people here at CB who I can send a message to and ask questions of.
 
I think it's appropriate to juxtapose the "Old Behringer" with the "Music Group Behringer".

I know KyleChirnside has only one post, but that one post is enough for me to feel comfortable calling and saying, "Hey -- I've really got a problem with ________ here. What can we do or who do I need to get in touch with to get this taken care of?"

JoeSanborn and KyleChirnside, I hope both of you are not strangers here to CB in the future. I've gotten pretty good at finding phone numbers for customer suppport lines on many manufacturer's websites, but it really is invaluable to know that in addition to those, there are people here at CB who I can send a message to and ask questions of.

Thanks. We were, and are users just like the people that have the questions or problems.

Kind regards,


CHIRNSIDE Kyle
Manager, Customer Technical
MUSIC Group Services NV Inc.
Tel: +1 702 800 8290 ext 5714
Mobile: +1 702 371 2328
Email: [email protected]
Web: Midas Consoles | Klark Teknik | Turbosound - Professional Loudspeaker Systems
 
Hi Guys,
We are offering an X32 Webinar UserGroup session this coming Saturday!
The first hour will be an X32 overview, as we did last week, followed by the second hour for anything you would like demonstrated and or questions.

Justin Fry and Chris Painter will be the presenters for this event.

I hope you can make it!

Best
Joe Sanborn
Manager, Channel Marketing
MUSIC Group
BEHRINGER

X32 Webinar and User Group #3

Join us for a Webinar on October 20



Space is limited.
Reserve your Webinar seat now at:
https://www4.gotomeeting.com/register/532167327

This is an X32 Webinar open to anyone who would like to know more about the X32.
This event is a great opportunity to learn more, ask questions, and share info about the X32.
Title: X32 Webinar and User Group #3
Date: Saturday, October 20, 2012
Time: 10:00 AM - 12:00 PM PDT
After registering you will receive a confirmation email containing information about joining the Webinar.
System Requirements
PC-based attendees
Required: Windows® 7, Vista, XP or 2003 Server

Mac®-based attendees
Required: Mac OS® X 10.5 or newer

Mobile attendees
Required: iPhone®, iPad®, Android™ phone or Android tablet
 
Hi Guys,

We are having out Webinar/User Group tomorrow, info below.
I hope you can make it!


X32 Live! Webinar/User Group - Signal Routing Setup

Join us for a Webinar on October 25


Space is limited.
Reserve your Webinar seat now at:
https://www4.gotomeeting.com/register/539132591

Please join us for our X32 Live! Webinar/User Group #4.
This webinar will focus on routing signals on the X32 including, interal mic pre amps, aux inputs, AES50 to S-16, Firewire USB to DAW, and P16 routing.
The first hour will be a presentation on this topic followed by one hour of questions and live demos!
Title: X32 Live! Webinar/User Group - Signal Routing Setup
Date: Thursday, October 25, 2012
Time: 10:00 AM - 12:00 PM PDT
After registering you will receive a confirmation email containing information about joining the Webinar.


EVENT #2:


X32 Live! Webinar/User Group - X32 and ProTools

Join us for a Webinar on October 25

Space is limited.
Reserve your Webinar seat now at:
https://www4.gotomeeting.com/register/397260103

Please join us for our X32 Live! Webinar/User Group #5
The first hour of the webinar will focus setting up and configuring the X32 to use with ProTools. We will focus on getting audio in and out of PT, Control Surface functions using HUI with the X32.


The second hour will be open for questions and live demos!
Title: X32 Live! Webinar/User Group - X32 and ProTools
Date: Thursday, October 25, 2012
Time: 4:00 PM - 6:00 PM PDT
After registering you will receive a confirmation email containing information about joining the Webinar.

Best
Joe Sanborn
Manager, Channel Marketing
MUSIC Group
BEHRINGER
 
So when this thread blew up, I decided to throw myself on the bomb and see what this console really had to offer. It just happens that as the same time my venue is in need of a new monitor console. Being a state building, getting new things takes time so I thought it would be a great time to give the X32 a run. I contacted Joe and he was more then happy to send me a console to demo for November. The northeast rep, John Dinicola, brought the console up and did training on it for one of my engineers and myself. Even though John's apartment was in Hoboken... and two days before had 4' of water infront of it... and he had to wait two hours for gas, he successfully made it up.

We did about an hour and a half of training before we started patching up the act for the night. The show was a woodstock era tribute band with 30 inputs and 8 mixes. The group was a house band with different frontmen for each of the "bands". I ran the console for the first night. Our house wedges are active Meyer UM-1P with no processing.

So, first impressions is this thing reminds me a lot of the AVID consoles. There are no menus/setting buttons to hit to get to anything. Need more compression, grab the dynamics encoder, need to tighten that gate... grab the gate encoder... etc. During the show there was no reason to touch any of the things on the screen. Everything is right there on the front panel ready to go. If you do need to dig into the details on any of the sections, a quick "view" button on each section drops you right into the screen for that section of the console. Setup and patching was rather simple. That block of 8 thing is a little weird, but in my world where we are used to and wired for analog anyway that is really not a big deal. The display screens on each channel are extremely easy to read. Even better, you can customize the color for each screen. That was something that really came in handy when flipping layers.

As far as actual show operation goes this thing sings as a monitor console. Besides have a 4 band parametric on every input and an 6 band on every mix, you can throw a 31 band graph on each mix as well. To set the graphs, you can use the DCA/Mix faders which is pretty cool and fast. You can have the master fader that usually controls L/R control your cue wedge which is beneficial. The speed of this console shows though when you put it in "sends on fader". It is very easy to throw into this mode with a big button in between the master and channel section. The button glows bright red when active, though I wished it flashed as well. When in this mode it works just like on Yamaha consoles, you press a select on a mix and then all channel faders move to what is on that mix. The channel screens put a notation on every screen saying which mix is active. There is a flipside to this as well, which I did not think I would use that much but became the killer feature of this console. When you select a channel and sends on fader is active the master section gives you control of each mix for that individual channel. So, when I was dialing in mixes during sound check it was easy to select a single mic and set that input for each musician onstage. During the show if a musician was having an issue I could select there mix and easily dial in what they needed. Working both ways was extremely fast. I know other consoles have this feature, but for a console this size it is killer. I never once reached for the dedicated mix controls. I'm sure it I was mixing FOH I would, but for monitors they are not really needed. This alone made my night one of the easiest I have ever had behind a monitor console. I was pretty active most the night with the changing frontmen and I never got lost.

Now, as far as sound goes I can find no faults in this console. The headamps sound great and have plenty of headroom. The console sounds rather warm and clean. It is not as warm as our Heritage but is **** close.

The next night we had NY Banjo featuring Bela Fleck and about a half dozen other banjo players in (including the guy who played Dualing Banjos on Deliverance). My engineer that had less the a hour on the console before the day started was easily able to get the show up and going. Bela's engineer, who has been with him for 25 years, had no complaints about the sound when we were dialing in the mixes before the band arrived. That show also went off without issue.

So, yes, this console does have some limitations. The block of 8 thing can bite you. The effects inserts are a bit weird, not all 8 blocks can be used the same. But, for a street price under 3 grand you get a killer console that is well built, feels good on your hands, and has a ton of power. I'm still going to be getting an SC48 for our monitor desk strictly due to the 32 input restriction of this console, but I will have no issues running shows on this console before that console shows up. It will also give us some more flexibility in our smaller space which is very much needed. There is nothing that touches this console for under 10k as far as I am concerned. No, its not a Profile or an SD7, but it blows anything double or triple its price out of the water. This thing really is a game changer.

I have the console for a few more weeks and will put it in an FOH situation and record with it. I'll let you guys know how that works out.

Woodstock show:
proxy.php


NY Banjo:
proxy.php
 
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It looks good and everyone I know who has one or has used one really likes it. I look forward to using one.
 
I would like to say that I think that it is great that this company can illicit such a highly emotional response to producing something that looks credible. I think this is an example of us being resistant to lesser quality merchandise attempting to grow up. An example of this in lighting land is Elation and probably in a few years Chauvet. While I do not think the X32 is going to replace most pro-designers rigs...it may do alot to make digital sound more affordable so we should see it in more educational settings, Night clubs, small musical theatres, small touring bands etc..so bully to them for making that possible.
 
I would like to say that I think that it is great that this company can illicit such a highly emotional response to producing something that looks credible. I think this is an example of us being resistant to lesser quality merchandise attempting to grow up. An example of this in lighting land is Elation and probably in a few years Chauvet. While I do not think the X32 is going to replace most pro-designers rigs...it may do alot to make digital sound more affordable so we should see it in more educational settings, Night clubs, small musical theatres, small touring bands etc..so bully to them for making that possible.

Casio had the same problem when they first introduced a pro line of digital pianos. They're pretty well received now, but I think there's still a slight stigma attached to the name on the back of the keyboard.
 
That's not to say there aren't good products made in China by well regulated companies. Tascam, Mackie, BMW, Ford and Apple have proven that Chinese made goods don't have to be bad. But, they also OWN those factories.

Er, you do realize that the Music Group owns their own factory - in China - for exactly the reasons you mentioned and that the X32 is one of the first products to come out of that new factory?

I realize there is apparently lots of brand animosity towards Behringer for past actual or perceived misdeeds, but your over the top reaction doesn't seem very professional to me (ironic given the theme of your rant). I don't mind if people have strong opinions or positions - but they look less silly if they are based on fact.

As for the riders - if Behringer has turned over a new leaf and the X32 is every bit as good as it appears to be (I doubt SOS would have gushed if it was half as bad as you are implying) then riders will change. If not via people being reasonable, then via lost business. Economics always wins :cool:

EDIT: And with lines like this:

Proof. Provide proof or go back to conning churches into buying sub-standard powered mixing consoles.

Is it any wonder that Joe doesn't bother responding to you?

"ALL I REALLY NEED TO KNOW I LEARNED IN KINDERGARTEN" - sigh....
 
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I've just come across this thread while looking for some real world experiences of the X32. It's interesting one comment about the software being the concern... My experience of any Behringer digital kit is the software is excellent. My old DDX3216 was intuitive and really nice to use. Unfortunately many of the capacitors weren't soldered in place.

That's the problem, currently toxic to the Behringer brand for anyone with experience with audio equipment; they just don't build or QA their stuff anywhere near well enough. They're not alone in putting out some sub standard equipment. Four racks of Focusrite preamps in a clean BBC studio all had failures from bad buttons within a year.

But Behringer kit seems to fail more than anyone elses. I've just bought three ADA8000 units. All three were bad. It seems to be a problem with the adat chip used. Fair enough, but it should have been caught before they left the factory. Has their been a general recall of stock? Not to my knowledge.

£2k may be very cheap for what the X32 offers. But it's a lot of money to spend on finding out whether Behringer have fixed their processes. I'd expect an LS9 to be good for 10 years loyal service. I'd hope the X32 makes it to the end of its warranty.

That may not be fair, but it's how I feel about it. Faced with a purchasing decision, I just can't go with the X32.
 

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