Belt Lighting Wiring Question
- Thread starterChuck Reece
- Start date
@Chuck Reece First thoughts for you: I'd begin with a suitable, metal (Steel or aluminum) enclosure. Within the enclosure, I'd house four fuse mounts, either extractors or open clips. I'd have four appropriate cable grips to secure my four sources of 12/3 S or SO or SOW. The box would have a hinged or bolted cover. All grounds would bond to the box and extend to the cover. My four fuses would be sized to protect the load wiring. Affixed to the exterior of the box cover would be a code acceptable warning label advising "Multiple Sources contained herein". Protect your personnel, dimmers, wiring and loads. I'd be able to get this passed by an AHJ / inspector here in Canada. In "The Donald's" world you may want to wait for a coutryman's notions.
Edit: Can I assume you're using 120 volt lamps and that your sockets and wiring are rated / approved for 120 Volts? If this is a low voltage application, I'd likely treat it similarly but I'd be interfacing via isolation transformers and / or approved low voltage supplies of the appropriate voltage.
Edit: Changed a period to a question mark.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
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Amiers
Renting to Corporate One Fixture at a Time.
Excuse my language but bleeping chase strip lights suck.
As you will figured out they share one neutral. You will have to calculate to get it to work properly and not overload your dimmer.
You will need to break out each hot to a dimmer with a neutral from your feed.
It will look nice once it’s together but it’s a pita to setup.
As you will figured out they share one neutral. You will have to calculate to get it to work properly and not overload your dimmer.
You will need to break out each hot to a dimmer with a neutral from your feed.
It will look nice once it’s together but it’s a pita to setup.
@Amiers When you typed: "and not overload your dimmer" , did you mean your dimmer(s) or your manufacturer's single / common neutral conductor?
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.
microstar
Well-Known Member
To answer the question you actually asked, the biggest problem with doing a "breakout" to 4 separate dimmed circuits is to keep the common neutral line on the belt light from getting mixed up with the hot from the 4 dimmers. In some form or another you will need to attach 4 wires to the "C" (neutral) wire on the belt light, which will give you a hot and a neutral for each of the four circuits and wire them CORRECTLY (hot to hot pin, neutral to neutral pin) to grounded stage pin plugs. In this case there is no ground.
You will have to make absolutely sure the four dimmer outlets you are plugging to are also wired correctly, meaning the dimmed hot actually goes to the hot terminal of the outlet. Then, since the plugs will only mate one way, you have zero chance of connecting neutral to hot.
You will have to make absolutely sure the four dimmer outlets you are plugging to are also wired correctly, meaning the dimmed hot actually goes to the hot terminal of the outlet. Then, since the plugs will only mate one way, you have zero chance of connecting neutral to hot.
BillConnerFASTC
Well-Known Member
@BillConnerFASTC Be cautious Mr. Bill, someone'll open up the "triplen harmonics" can of worms when you're not looking and I, for one, don't want to go there on this forum. Who's to guarantee all the OP's dimmers won't be sourced from the same phase and won't get turned on simultaneously, even momentarily, in an additive chase? When you cover yourself with the phrase "Depending on load." You're allowing, and covering yourself, for a lot of possibilities.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.
BillConnerFASTC
Well-Known Member
As I said, it depends on load. I probably wouldn't do it if the total load - all circuits - exceeded the name plate rating of any one dimmer.
What I use to use: http://prosites-llcwccd.homestead.com/MECHANICAL-FLASHERS.html
What I use to use: http://prosites-llcwccd.homestead.com/MECHANICAL-FLASHERS.html
@Chuck Reece Please post:
- The conductor gauges of the 5 conductors within the cable.
- Are the conductors copper, aluminum, or?
- The rated voltage and temperature rating of the cable's insulation.
- The rated voltage and current / Wattage per lamp.
- The number of lamps per circuit.
- The total number of lamps on the common neutral conductor.
- Among my concerns are running additive chases where all lamps will be illuminated simultaneously.
- Depending upon all of the above factors, I may go with a single neutral but I doubt I'd go with a neutral rated to accommodate the name plate rating of any one dimmer as I doubt your load wiring is rated to survive the rated output of a 6 or 12 KW dimmer for example.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
BillConnerFASTC
Well-Known Member
Are there still 6k and 12k dimmers? Haven't seen or considered other than 2.4 k in a long time.
Unfortunately, the data on line doesn't mention any wire size or type, only that its 15 amp max, so guessing it's 14 guage.
https://www.actionlighting.com/search.php?search_query=Belt
PS: if all the lamps are on a shared neutral in the assembly, wtf good does it do to run three to rack?
Unfortunately, the data on line doesn't mention any wire size or type, only that its 15 amp max, so guessing it's 14 guage.
https://www.actionlighting.com/search.php?search_query=Belt
PS: if all the lamps are on a shared neutral in the assembly, wtf good does it do to run three to rack?
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@Chuck Reece @BillConnerFASTC If all four (4) dimmers are on the same phase, their currents will be additive and easily exceed the rating of any one dimmer. If all four (4) dimmers are sourced from three phases, triplen harmonics may become a factor as evidenced by the wide spread demands for, and acceptance of, double neutrals on "road switches" and feeds to dimmer racks. If we're going to get down to specifics, and I suspect we ought to, it would be good to have more information from @Chuck Reece the original poster and / or the manufacturer / distributor of the specific product. @derekleffew and / or @TJCornish @porkchop and / or @microstar would any of you care to comment?
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.
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BillConnerFASTC
Well-Known Member
BillConnerFASTC
Well-Known Member
To get back to Chuck's original post. The product does not seem to be listed, meaning it has not been tested by a NRTL (national recognized testing laboratory like UL). If that proves to be the case, I believe its use is not permitted by the National Electric Code.
If you are bound and determined to use it for a production - hopefully not a permanent installation - I strongly recommend the total load - all lamps together - not be near the capacity of any one dimmed circuit - probably 20 amps - and below the 15 amp limit of the device. That's a lot of 5 watt lamps and quite a few 10 watt lamps. And then be very careful in being sure which pins are hot and which are neutrals and I would only connect the neutral to one receptacle - and make that the first connection and test it.
JDs suggestion of using a shoe box dimmer also is very appealing, powering off a constant circuit and just running DMX to it.
I'm sure I've done riskier stuff - like the porcelain sockets with colored pars and wall box dimmers on a piece of 2 x 4 when I was 12 and couldn't get over color mixing - and I survived as did the house.
If you are bound and determined to use it for a production - hopefully not a permanent installation - I strongly recommend the total load - all lamps together - not be near the capacity of any one dimmed circuit - probably 20 amps - and below the 15 amp limit of the device. That's a lot of 5 watt lamps and quite a few 10 watt lamps. And then be very careful in being sure which pins are hot and which are neutrals and I would only connect the neutral to one receptacle - and make that the first connection and test it.
JDs suggestion of using a shoe box dimmer also is very appealing, powering off a constant circuit and just running DMX to it.
I'm sure I've done riskier stuff - like the porcelain sockets with colored pars and wall box dimmers on a piece of 2 x 4 when I was 12 and couldn't get over color mixing - and I survived as did the house.
One wire is power, one wire is ground, the other three each do one "leg" of lights. You can attach these to a chaser box. Wore one leg per channel. this will allow you to chase bulb 1, bulb 2, bulb 3 in a number of chase sequences in the controller box. If you want the entire string to light at once you need to connect all three bulb legs into one leg, then you can no longer chase each bulb but this will allow you to control all lights up as if they were one bulb. Depending on the bulb wattage you can string these together until you reach the circuit limit.
(3-Channel Chasing Light Rope) will work at Amazin etc.
(3-Channel Chasing Light Rope) will work at Amazin etc.
I've used the Action Lighting belt light several times. As @Amiers said...its a major PITA. @microstar is right about the terminal block, it's the cleanest way I've found to wire it. I usually enclose everything in a junction box for safety as well. He is also right about being VERY careful with your wiring. I had a well-meaning overhire helping me out one day and set him to putting plugs on a belt I'd already done the break out for, when we turned it on, we discovered the hot and neutral were not the same across every plug... let's just say it was a very important lesson well-learned.
This is the page with Action Lighting's accessories for this belt light. https://www.actionlighting.com/5-wire-chasing-belt-light-accessories/ There is also an amperage and max run length calculator near the top of their page.
I generally do the following to create a breakout:
Wire the 5-pin molex connector from the action lighting page to the end of your belt so you have a clean, neat connection.
Use the wire only belt with the receiving molex connector to get offstage/behind scenery.
Insert working end into a junction box to house all of the following connections.
Using a utility knife, split the 5 wires apart with ~1' to work with.
Cut the neutral wire about 6" shorter than the hots, strip the end and secure into a terminal block or 5-conductor Wago.
Insert (4) 14-12AWG wires into the other side of the terminal block or Wago, run them out of the junction box along with the hots.
Close up junction box and wire on your connectors of choice. Ensure you have proper strain relief applied.
If it's used often, make a permanent breakout with a molex connector on the end that you can pop on to whatever run you've installed.
Good luck!
This is the page with Action Lighting's accessories for this belt light. https://www.actionlighting.com/5-wire-chasing-belt-light-accessories/ There is also an amperage and max run length calculator near the top of their page.
I generally do the following to create a breakout:
Wire the 5-pin molex connector from the action lighting page to the end of your belt so you have a clean, neat connection.
Use the wire only belt with the receiving molex connector to get offstage/behind scenery.
Insert working end into a junction box to house all of the following connections.
Using a utility knife, split the 5 wires apart with ~1' to work with.
Cut the neutral wire about 6" shorter than the hots, strip the end and secure into a terminal block or 5-conductor Wago.
Insert (4) 14-12AWG wires into the other side of the terminal block or Wago, run them out of the junction box along with the hots.
Close up junction box and wire on your connectors of choice. Ensure you have proper strain relief applied.
If it's used often, make a permanent breakout with a molex connector on the end that you can pop on to whatever run you've installed.
Good luck!
Amiers
Renting to Corporate One Fixture at a Time.
Super PITA.
That is NOT true of the product being discussed. 4 hot legs, one 'common' (if wired for AC this is the neutral).
BillConnerFASTC
Well-Known Member
Why bother with 4 neutrals if they all go to the same buss bar as would normally be the case? As long as that one is as big as the one in the flat multi-cable assembly, which is the weakest link, it can only cause problems.
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