Black Box lighting instruments in a low ceiling room

[JonCarter]

I've been asked to consult a local theatre in converting one of the (relatively!) unused rooms in their building into a 40-50 seat Black Box. The room is about 25' x 40', which isn't too bad. The problem is that the room has a ceiling height of 8'-1" in the centers of coffers about 8' square, with beams surrounding the coffers. Max. height below the beams is 7'-4" The beams are structural and cannot be moved or removed They are also looking for a small portable lighting console for use in this facility. Does anyone have experience with lighting instruments (LED only) suitable for lighting in such a room? And if so, could you point me to some quality manufacturers, preferably US, and ideally sole source for all of the lighting equipment--instruments, DMX and power wiring and control board. Many thanks!

 

[RonHebbard]

I've been asked to consult a local theatre in converting one of the (relatively!) unused rooms in their building into a 40-50 seat Black Box. The room is about 25' x 40', which isn't too bad. The problem is that the room has a ceiling height of 8'-1" in the centers of coffers about 8' square, with beams surrounding the coffers. Max. height below the beams is 7'-4" The beams are structural and cannot be moved or removed They are also looking for a small portable lighting console for use in this facility. Does anyone have experience with lighting instruments (LED only) suitable for lighting in such a room? And if so, could you point me to some quality manufacturers, preferably US, and ideally sole source for all of the lighting equipment--instruments, DMX and power wiring and control board. Many thanks!

I'd vote for ETC S4 Junior Zooms, assuming they have an LED version available.
Calling @STEVETERRY
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard

 

[theatricalmatt]

I'd vote for ETC S4 Junior Zooms, assuming they have an LED version available.
Calling @STEVETERRY
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard

ETC just released their ColorSource Spot Junior, which sounds ideal for this sort of space.

 

[sk8rsdad]

My turn to go off on a tangent.

Converting a room to a theatre takes more than adding a few lights. We have a rehearsal room that was supposed to have been architected to support a black box theatre. The room can physically seat 200. The exit doors could theoretically evacuate 500+. However, one of the exit corridors is too narrow by ~10 cm when the door is open, so the secondary egress route derates room capacity to 60 people. It can be remedied by insetting the door into the room, reducing the usable space by ~60 cm along most of an entire wall. HVAC limits the room capacity to 75 because the original architect and building contractors were more familiar with the building code for warehouse/office/retail construction than performance. Easy fixes before construction begins. Expensive retrofits after the fact. There are a lot of layers to the onion of designing public assembly spaces.

 

[almorton]

We have some colorsource jr led fixtures and they're very good; reasonably small very bright profiles. For control, I haven't used one, but an element 2 might be all you need. No encoders, but if you don't have any movers ypu wont miss them, and near as damn it the same EOS as the bigger ETC consoles. You'll also need some way to control their power. Colorsource relay could be worth investigating.

 

[RonHebbard]

My turn to go off on a tangent.

Converting a room to a theatre takes more than adding a few lights. We have a rehearsal room that was supposed to have been architected to support a black box theatre. The room can physically seat 200. The exit doors could theoretically evacuate 500+. However, one of the exit corridors is too narrow by ~10 cm when the door is open, so the secondary egress route de-rates room capacity to 60 people. It can be remedied by insetting the door into the room, reducing the usable space by ~60 cm along most of an entire wall. HVAC limits the room capacity to 75 because the original architect and building contractors were more familiar with the building code for warehouse/office/retail construction than performance. Easy fixes before construction begins. Expensive retrofits after the fact. There are a lot of layers to the onion of designing public assembly spaces.

@sk8rsdad Agreeing, and running, with your tangent; 2 points:
1; Love your verb "architected".
2; When we were building the Four Seasons Opera and Ballet venue in the heart of Toronto, during an early contractor's meeting, the General Contractor's Foreman said: "A theatre's just a big building with a large, empty, hole in the middle; how hard can it be?"
Instantly the electrical and HVAC subcontractors were choking trying to stifle their laughter. 'nough said.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard

 

[JohnD]

You might want to take a look at the classic INKY updated:

Ovation F-55FC | CHAUVET Professional

Ovation F-55FC is a full color RGBAL LED (3-inch) inkie Fresnel ideal for short throw applications in television studios and theatres.

www.chauvetprofessional.com

EDIT: What console(s) are they already using in their main space? Something similar but smaller might be the ticket.

 

[JonCarter]

Ron Hebbard:
I'm afraid even the ETC S4 Jr. would be too large. We're working under an 8' max ceiling height.

sk8rsdad:
Long before getting to lighting I've asked he questions RE: building, code compliance, zoning, fire code compliance, handicapped access, requirements, HVAC air changes/hr, available parking, available power, etc., etc., and have been assured that these questions have been addressed by the Directors of the organization and been satisfactorily answered by all applicable AHJs.

JohnD:
The Chauvet instruments you recommend looks like what's needed, in fact, maybe even overkill. Instruments in this space will be hung within 2'-3' of the actors below them. Thanks for the tip re: present console. I will discuss this w/the Board.

 

[derekleffew]

It used to be so easy...
20@ 65Q Fresnels
10@ 3.5Q Ellipsoidals, W and XW.
Call it a day.

 

[jayvee]

I have a space very similar to this. Inventory includes some Altman 3.5s, Altman 65Qs, a couple of Altman 360Qs for pattern wash, and some Blizzard HotBoxes for colorwash. Control is ETC Nomad running on a nuc that's mounted to the back of a monitor I had and a Cherry programmable keyboard. Works fine for our needs.

 

[Malabaristo]

A very similar space I know of just got a bunch of these fixtures from Monoprice and a Colorsource console for control. They're bright for their size and have relatively homogenous beam. They also have something unusual for this category of fixture which is a slew-rate limiting option that makes the dimming not awful. If you turn it off entirely they're the typical level of stepping while fading, but the lowest setting is a good balance between smooth fades and responsiveness. Overall they're not going to blow anyone away, but they're a pretty good compromise for their price and size. They do have an always-on fan, but it's pretty quiet (even for that small of a space).

I have to admit that as someone whose brain is thoroughly steeped in the Eos family, I don't much like the Colorsource console... but for someone without that prejudice, it's a fine board for small systems like this.

 

[Ford]

@JonCarter I don't usually recommend our DJ fixtures for theatrical applications... that said, I am going to recommend the Chauvet DJ Core Pars for Back/Side/Top washes. They don't have the quality of light that you'd want for skin-tones on front light, but can get very wide even dispersion for short throw wash/fill. For Front/key light, I'd consider the Ovation F415VW, which is a LED 6" fresnel that does great Variable whites, and decent color washes, tucked up as tight to the ceiling as possible (I would probably modify the Yoke, to tuck them up even tighter). For control, I'd put it all on a QuickQ10.

 

[JohnD]

Since we are on a Chauvet roll, you might also take a look at this for color washes that don't take up a lot of height.

Ovation CYC 1 FC | CHAUVET Professional

Ovation CYC 1 FC is an incredibly sleek, discreet, and light weight CYC that delivers a wide, smooth field of light with significant reach. Completely convection cooled, the unit is ideal for applications where silent operation is critical. Ovation Cyc 1 FC features the advanced RGBAL...

www.chauvetprofessional.com

When it comes to designing lighting for this space you are rather having to think inside the (very small) box.

 

[Ford]

That's actually a great point... and the Cyc1 makes whitelight with high CRI... so it could be used for Front Wash.
In Fact, it does almost everything you'd need, except gobo projection and/or shuttered down specials.

I take back my recommendation of the Core Pars and Fresnels with modified Yokes... the CYC1-FC fills both of those applications, does great saturated colors and variable color temperatures, is plenty bright, is convection cooled, has variable PWM (if you're shooting video)... It will be your Swiss-Army-Light.

 

[Rainmaker]

I like the Elektralite Eyeballs and Chauvet EZE 100 ERS fixtures. All LED and works in our space that has similar height issues. I mount them all on tripod stands for mobility and each one has a show baby attached. I use the ETC Colorsource AV console.

 

[Ford]

I think you mean the Eve E-100Z. mixing those with the Cyc1-FC and QuickQ10 would give you a GREAT system for a small room. And, you could single source.

As always, try to get your local Chauvet dealer to bring you a couple of samples, so you can see them in your space... but, yeah... that'd be a pretty great little system.

ChamSys does Live-online training for the QuickQ series every week. I'd consider registering for this so that you can make sure that you're comfortable with this as a console. The schedule is in the link (QuickQ is only once a week, on Thursday mornings... ).

 

[RonHebbard]

It used to be so easy...
20@ 65Q Fresnels
10@ 3.5Q Ellipsoidals, W and XW.
Call it a day.

Each housing a 500 Watt incandescent lamp fed by flaking asbestos tails.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard

 

[JonCarter]

RonHebbard, In this situation I would worry much more about the 500W instrument 2' from actors' heads than the asbestos tails.

 

[RonHebbard]

RonHebbard, In this situation I would worry much more about the 500W instrument 2' from actors' heads than the asbestos tails.

@JonCarter What'a ya got against molten makeup cascading down performers' faces then staining their costumes?

This reminds me of 1999 programing the A/V & system wide show control in Madame Tussaud's newly constructed two story 'Vegas location.
We were told the Fire Marshal would be coming in at an unspecified time before midnight to test the fire alarm systems; he needed all sound and motion to stop and see all lights snap to full and remain there.

We knew we'd be out of sight in a rack room finessing programming but assured management we'd leave everything in a show state. We told management we'd be able to hear speech in any / all of the public areas and asked management to let us know when the Fire Marshal had completed his inspection so we could resume our work.

You can guess how this went down. We were out of sight finessing in our rack room when the alarm was activated. We waited, and waited, then waited some more before boldly & quietly sneaking out to see what was taking so long in the BLINDINGLY BRIGHT silence.
Sure enough, the night watchman acknowledged the Fire Marshal had departed LONG ago leaving Madonna with a plastic banana horn curling up from the center of her forehead and Gloria Estefan with her face melting.

Management was not amused when we phoned them after midnight. They were sufficiently annoyed that they called the Fire Marshal's office who assured them no one was there; neither when he arrived nor when he departed. Aaaaarrg!!
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard

 

[JohnD]

It used to be so easy...
20@ 65Q Fresnels
10@ 3.5Q Ellipsoidals, W and XW.
Call it a day.

Then there were the storefront shoebox spaces than used the 4 1/2" PC spot (yes Altman made one for a long time).
That would be one of the "Professional lights" they would also fill in with home brew lighting, inspired by "Stage Lighting in the Boondocks" by James Hull Miller.