Wow, thanks JD! I'm sure that'll go over great with my Lighting Supervisor...
Nah, I want to use a Source Four Multi-Par to do gobos, I'm not too fond of our fresnels.
Blue Edge and Brown Edge
- Thread starterSerendipity
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Wow, thanks JD! I'm sure that'll go over great with my Lighting Supervisor...
Nah, I want to use a Source Four Multi-Par to do gobos, I'm not too fond of our fresnels.
Dip breaks out the swatchboook...
Charc's right, that doesn't quite make sense.... Care to elaborate, Derek?
I'm rather partial to R-116 myself. Of course, I don't use it in my Source 4's.
'Dip'Oaldabs, I hope this helps.
The following contains some inferences based on experience and observation, but the historical facts are absolutely correct. Note I am speaking of professional designers working with union crew members and rental fixtures.
Before 1992, designers would focus a wash of ERSs by setting a sharp edge, making shutter cuts, and then running the barrel either slightly out or in to soften the edge. In theory, after the first light was focused, the designer and electrician knew the barrel setting for all the other lights. In practice however, the bench focus of the light played a major factor and sometimes one light would look better with barrel in, even though all of its brothers had barrel out. On order to speed the focus process, some clever designers took to focusing all units sharp, and then adding the lightest frost available at the time, R114.
When the SourceFour became the standard, the practice continued and escalated, as designers saw that the S4 beam was almost too perfect. It was difficult to obtain a soft edge that would blend with its neighbors. So the practice of adding Hamburg became even more commonplace. But never being satisfied, designers wanted a less soft edge than R114 afforded, but didn't want/couldn't to go back to running the barrel. Thus begat R119. After a few years, again designers decided they wanted something slightly less soft, and R132 was born. Choosing from three densities of Hamburg is still more efficient than having an IA guy run the barrel on every light, while 27 other stagehands look on.
It offends my sensibilities to think of putting frost in a template unit, so forgive me if I ignore that. I must ask if same designer also insisted on donuts?
"Frost" is a generic term which may be used to refer to any diffusion, not just R100. I've used the term "Hamburg" above when referring to all three R114, R119, R132. There are rough equivalents in Lee and Apollo. GAM is unique in that they offer 9 different degrees of diffusion, from 10-10 to 10-90. I'm still searching for the perfect diffusion for my followspots. See http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting/5772-ever-put-baggy-followspot.html?highlight=baggy.
For a garage experiment, sharp focus an S4, with shutter cuts. Run the barrel and observe the edge. Put it back to sharp. Now try 114, 119, and 132. Post your findings! Obviously the desired edge will vary depending on the fixture's intended purpose, so this exercize is an abstraction. And we have yet to touch on peak vs. cosine distribution.
The following contains some inferences based on experience and observation, but the historical facts are absolutely correct. Note I am speaking of professional designers working with union crew members and rental fixtures.
Before 1992, designers would focus a wash of ERSs by setting a sharp edge, making shutter cuts, and then running the barrel either slightly out or in to soften the edge. In theory, after the first light was focused, the designer and electrician knew the barrel setting for all the other lights. In practice however, the bench focus of the light played a major factor and sometimes one light would look better with barrel in, even though all of its brothers had barrel out. On order to speed the focus process, some clever designers took to focusing all units sharp, and then adding the lightest frost available at the time, R114.
When the SourceFour became the standard, the practice continued and escalated, as designers saw that the S4 beam was almost too perfect. It was difficult to obtain a soft edge that would blend with its neighbors. So the practice of adding Hamburg became even more commonplace. But never being satisfied, designers wanted a less soft edge than R114 afforded, but didn't want/couldn't to go back to running the barrel. Thus begat R119. After a few years, again designers decided they wanted something slightly less soft, and R132 was born. Choosing from three densities of Hamburg is still more efficient than having an IA guy run the barrel on every light, while 27 other stagehands look on.
It offends my sensibilities to think of putting frost in a template unit, so forgive me if I ignore that. I must ask if same designer also insisted on donuts?
"Frost" is a generic term which may be used to refer to any diffusion, not just R100. I've used the term "Hamburg" above when referring to all three R114, R119, R132. There are rough equivalents in Lee and Apollo. GAM is unique in that they offer 9 different degrees of diffusion, from 10-10 to 10-90. I'm still searching for the perfect diffusion for my followspots. See http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting/5772-ever-put-baggy-followspot.html?highlight=baggy.
For a garage experiment, sharp focus an S4, with shutter cuts. Run the barrel and observe the edge. Put it back to sharp. Now try 114, 119, and 132. Post your findings! Obviously the desired edge will vary depending on the fixture's intended purpose, so this exercize is an abstraction. And we have yet to touch on peak vs. cosine distribution.
The inkies and GU-10 lights on the frame, and the inkies on the upper stage. Both places need incredibly softened light.
quarterfront
Member
'Dip'Oaldabs, I hope this helps.
It did!
And are we the same entity now? And can't you come up with a better name?
The following contains some inferences based on experience and observation, but the historical facts are absolutely correct. Note I am speaking of professional designers working with union crew members and rental fixtures.
Before 1992, designers would focus a wash of ERSs by setting a sharp edge, making shutter cuts, and then running the barrel either slightly out or in to soften the edge. In theory, after the first light was focused, the designer and electrician knew the barrel setting for all the other lights. In practice however, the bench focus of the light played a major factor and sometimes one light would look better with barrel in, even though all of its brothers had barrel out. On order to speed the focus process, some clever designers took to focusing all units sharp, and then adding the lightest frost available at the time, R114.
When the SourceFour became the standard, the practice continued and escalated, as designers saw that the S4 beam was almost too perfect. It was difficult to obtain a soft edge that would blend with its neighbors. So the practice of adding Hamburg became even more commonplace. But never being satisfied, designers wanted a less soft edge than R114 afforded, but didn't want/couldn't to go back to running the barrel. Thus begat R119. After a few years, again designers decided they wanted something slightly less soft, and R132 was born. Choosing from three densities of Hamburg is still more efficient than having an IA guy run the barrel on every light, while 27 other stagehands look on.
Agreed.
It offends my sensibilities to think of putting frost in a template unit, so forgive me if I ignore that. I must ask if same designer also insisted on donuts?
Donuts and frost in the template slot? Huh...
"Frost" is a generic term which may be used to refer to any diffusion, not just R100. I've used the term "Hamburg" above when referring to all three R114, R119, R132. There are rough equivalents in Lee and Apollo. GAM is unique in that they offer 9 different degrees of diffusion, from 10-10 to 10-90. I'm still searching for the perfect diffusion for my followspots. See http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting/5772-ever-put-baggy-followspot.html?highlight=baggy.
I did read that. I actually was perusing your website when I was looking at the Source Four with lampshade.
I think I'll need to search (and if it doesn't exist, create a thread) about diffusions, as I wandered into that section of my swatchbooks the other day, and wondered what the primary uses of each of them were (as they keep getting more bizarre-- compare R132 to AP1400, L414, or L460...) Or we could just discuss it here?
For a garage experiment, sharp focus an S4, with shutter cuts. Run the barrel and observe the edge. Put it back to sharp. Now try 114, 119, and 132. Post your findings! Obviously the desired edge will vary depending on the fixture's intended purpose, so this exercise is an abstraction. And we have yet to touch on peak vs. cosine distribution.
My garage needs expanding of it's inventory. Charc has LED PARs in his, and you apparently have a large quantity of S4s lying about.It also doesn't help that I get more "garage experiment" ideas the longer I stay on CB...
So I suppose I'll have to wait until sometime I can wander into the school's lx room to try that (or if cdub's reading this, want to help?).
I'd love to touch on peak vs cosine. I thought the consensus here was keep it as cosine as possible...
Here's my ten characters--
Yes, I'm taking up Charc's replying in the quote method, as it's much quicker.
"Template unit" = any ERS with a gobo in it. The gobo goes in the template holder in the pattern slot, and the donut goes into the colorframe holder(s), and the diffusion media goes into the file.
From Apollo's http://downloads.goapollo.com/Color%20filter%20guide.pdf
'Dip, see Rosco US : Technotes : Filters : Diffusion Confusion, and http://www.rosco.com/includes/technotes/filters/FilterFacts_06.pdf, pp19-21. While both are geared toward film and video where the edge quality is not as important as in stage lighting, they do explain what all the "frosts" are for. Start a new thread with your personal views on diffusion media.
While searching, I found this poll http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/...ners-gel-holders-not.html?highlight=diffusion, in which our new users might want to participate/comment.
From Apollo's http://downloads.goapollo.com/Color%20filter%20guide.pdf
I suspect the missing word [?] is "fixtures" or "ERSs". While I still don't agree with using frost with a gobo, Apollo does help prove my point in a roundabout way about needing frost with S4s. I'm saddened to report this color didn't prove satisfactory in my Super Troupers. The quest continues.
'Dip, see Rosco US : Technotes : Filters : Diffusion Confusion, and http://www.rosco.com/includes/technotes/filters/FilterFacts_06.pdf, pp19-21. While both are geared toward film and video where the edge quality is not as important as in stage lighting, they do explain what all the "frosts" are for. Start a new thread with your personal views on diffusion media.
While searching, I found this poll http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/...ners-gel-holders-not.html?highlight=diffusion, in which our new users might want to participate/comment.
Good designers know this, and thus will keep the cuts slightly inward, OR, will have the focuser retouch the critical shutter cuts after the desired edge is achieved. Even when using X132, sometimes shutters need to be retouched. See this post http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/...hat-brand-gel-what-does-cost-3.html#post78866 and a few that follow it.
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Most of the designers that come through my theatre don't spec diffusion. They would tell you that it is a mark of a lazy or a Yale designer. Point, cut, blend. That is how we do it. When done right, I think you can get a better blend with more lumens on stage if you get your edge through focusing the fixture rather than using diffusion.
As for the question of moving the shutters, running the barrel does not effect where the cuts are, just how the light moves around the cuts. If you make a sharp cut to a wall and then run the barrel, the cut will still be at the wall, but you may change the "feathering" of the beam to either feather in from the cut (making the wall darker) or feather out from the cut (making the wall brighter. It all depends on how you need your fixtures to blend.
quarterfront
Member
Generally I get the instrument centered, then have the electrician do cuts, then touch the beam edge, and if the cuts drift we retouch. If I know the focus is going to be really tight and has to be "just so" I'll often have them push a shutter a little way in and adjust the edge looking at the shutter. Once the edge is right we do shutter cuts.
This is pretty much standard procedure, isn't it?
Sure, I'll help. You know how to find me, don't you?
I've really only wound this to be an issue with my 5 and 10 degree Source 4's. Except for the whole working 25 ft in the air while standing on a pipe attached to a truss awkwardness, its really easy to just retouch the shutter cut after running the barrel.
thenelsontwins
Member
Agreed, this is your issue, which isn't really an issue at all. They will always be there.
But I also agree, a good bench focus never hurts anything. I wish I could get the shop guys to figure that out.
OnWithTheShow
Member
I made a Linebacher projector out of two Century 8" #1560 Lekolights. This by way of removing reflector and lens train plus gate from the cannon of a fixture. Large painted plexiglass screen that was optically arranged than spiked into place at a focal point that in the location did its best effect. Than the stray light was blocked after focusing. Basically it was a slide with behind it a large wattage lamp at a focused proximity without reflection and refraction.
Worked well - loved the effect though for these lamps the filaments were large enough that they didn't do such a great graphic effect. Shielding for the lamps was nominal in this case given huge (discontinued) filament incandescent lamps and in general placing the fixtures away from people - this plus the shielding of them for light escaping.
Smaller filament will have worked for a more graphic image but also given throw distance and size of it it played a role. My throw distance was short and size large, this with filiment that was large worked well for projecting a less realistic image with painted slide. - - REally just black paint on plexiglass and it worked to the effect given the background and a scrim.
Overall, more lively in look than that of a gobo and for the most part wider in focus than possible - this much less given the fixture location, would not short of a very custom gobo and wide focus fixture.. it looked better in the end in showing a natural effect that gobos from a single source could not do realistically. Sharp angles like this I had - only a few feet between stretched screen and scrim need the ability to aim the slide to focus it properly. Not true Linenbacher - got three of them on a storage shelf, but effect done in simply manually focusing the painted large slide than spiking it in place.
Electrical safety... for me it was incandascent. If you need to 1" chicken wire the frame of the fixture or rope off the area. Beyond that, its an old effect that some computer programming and special money paid could achieve.
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