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Mixers/Consoles BNC Sync IN ADA8000?

Discussion in 'Sound, Music, and Intercom' started by Jim SIP, Aug 9, 2018 at 12:11 PM.

  1. Jim SIP

    Jim SIP Member

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    Hello,

    I read a post from 2008 on BNC vs ADAT signals and I wanted to hear how it all worked out.

    My setup is going to be similar with 20 ft of lighttube from a ADA8000 to a Yamaha AW2816 DAR.

    I don't want to depend on a 48Kh signal on a 20 ft ADAT connection.

    The problem I see is a RG59 cable with a BNC on one end and a RCA digital audio on the other. The AW2816 only can receive work clock signals into Digital Stereo In or MIDI din plug.

    Has anyone ran a DAR more than 20 ft from an ADA8000 using all eight channels at 48Kh?

    Cheers

    Jim
     
  2. themuzicman

    themuzicman Well-Known Member

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    Do you have an ADAT expansion card for your AW2816 and are taking the ADAT Output from the ADA8000 to your AW2816? If so -- If you don't trust ADAT to carry your clock signal the 20 feet, why are you going to reliably trust it to carry your digital audio signal? While 5 Meters is the max length on the ADAT spec, you're fine going longer just get the shortest cable allowable to get the job done and don't coil it too tight.

    If you're just using the ADA8000 as a preamp, and taking the signals analog I wouldn't worry about the clock.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2018 at 11:30 PM
  3. Jim SIP

    Jim SIP Member

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    I understand why you are wondering what is my goal. Yes, I do have a ADAT card in the AW2816 and I have run the 50 feet of lightpipe cable between the two but not using all 8 channels. It gets a sold signal at 50 ft but I know coax has always been used to carry Sync in the studio, for cascade runs of 50 ft or more, using a MOTU. During a remote stage recording, our 20 ft snake allow us to put the ADA8000 in the third row, boost the signals and send them another 20 ft minimum. This setup gets me out of the third row, away from the wireless mics and PA speakers. Recording 8 channels will be pushing the ADAT to the Max and I hoped breaking out the Sync into the coax might help the dependability. I've recorded 5 channels, for Dolby, on a 20 ft ADAT run with no dropouts. The fiber tapes down to floor better than the snake ;-) Has anyone actually had problems doing?
     
  4. themuzicman

    themuzicman Well-Known Member

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    Even if you could, I don't think you gain anything in this setup by breaking out the sync independent from the ADAT stream. 2 channels or 8 channels, I don't think it'll make any difference at all as the reliability of ADAT doesn't typically go up or down with the number of channels being used - it's always transmitting data about all 8 channels as its a digital format. Your main concerns are jitter in the clock signal from line length, and honestly the terrible ADAT connectors popping out of mobile recording gear. At 20 ft. you're just over theoretical ADAT spec, but as you are running fiber, the extra 4ft. most likely won't introduce enough jitter to do anything harmful - you said it yourself, you've run 50ft.

    Looking at your options -- the AW2816 can only take wordclock via Internal Clock, Slot Expansion Card or the Digital Stereo In.
    I think you may be confusing Wordclock with Timecode here in regards to the DIN ports.
    As you are going in digital, you need the clock to come from somewhere external, or go to the external device driven from the AW2816's internal clock.

    Going from BNC on the ADA8000 to the AW2816's DIGITAL IN would require an external box of some sort to embed the wordclock signal in a SPDIF signal. I've never seen such a black box, and even if it existed, I don't think it would be worth the trouble here as a SPDIF clock functions much the same as an ADAT clock signal.

    The option you are left with is to use the ADAT stream to clock both devices.
     
  5. Jim SIP

    Jim SIP Member

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    Thanks TMM for your advice. I checked to see how the multiplexer worked in generating the newer S/MUX ADAT signal and if only 2 channels had data the stream would be smaller. The older ADAT did transmit mute channels.

    I don't see why the cable length is an issue, other then light strength, which could be extended by replacing the LED with a LASER diode driver circuit. (If you put your hand in front of the ADAT out, it's a 'Blob' not a beam.) 15 feet or 500 feet doesn't offer much delay at 12.288 Mbit/s. Since it's running through a 'pipe,' it may take a few µSEC longer to get there but once the data starts 'flowing,' all the packets will arrive evenly spaced. Fiber trunk lines carry 2,488 Mbit/s for miles without a repeater.

    Someone should bring S/MUS ADAT into the 21th century. We should be saying "A Snake? That's what my Grandfather used in his studio." LOL

    I know, the purests will say AD/DA conversion is not perfect BUT, everyone is listening to 44.1 DA music, except 'them.'

    If this all goes 'South' during a recording session, from time to time, I still have my little 4 channel Tascam Dr-70 backup running on stage, to pick up any dropouts.
    I make Demos for bands. It's not like I'm making a CD for Cheap Trick ;-) Although I do live in Rockford.

    Thanks Again
    www.SIPdesk.com
     
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  6. Amiers

    Amiers Lighting Phoenix 1 Lamp at a Time

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    Not to derail the conversation but I lived in Rockford for most of my life. Wonder how we never crossed paths.

    Surprised you didn’t name the LLC Screw City Productions :)
     
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  7. Jim SIP

    Jim SIP Member

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    I don't think the former County Attorney Paul Logli wants to hear about a video production company with the name "Screw" in it ;-) Besides our studio is in Davenport, IA. I'm glad to hear you Escaped. I don't do any work in Rockford. Who does? if you where into Audio, you must have met Dwayne Barker Recording? He can play about every Instrument and he appeared on the Arthur Godfrey Talent Show when he was a kid. If you live in Phoenix, you must be into Condo Lighting? HaHa
     
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  8. Amiers

    Amiers Lighting Phoenix 1 Lamp at a Time

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    I was more into lighting and worked at Starlight for about 6 years. There isn’t any real work there unless you work factories.

    I did get out only cause I was tired of the commute to Chicago,Madison and Milwaukee.
     
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  9. TimMc

    TimMc Well-Known Member

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    Get a stand-alone word clock and make it the 'master', set all the other devices to 'slave', wire them up with your choice of appropriate RG cables and be done with this.
     
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  10. themuzicman

    themuzicman Well-Known Member

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    The issue is that the Yamaha AW2816 has no external BNC input, else this would be an easy issue to solve. It only takes WC Sync from its internal clock, its SPDIF input, or a digital YGDAI card
     
  11. TimMc

    TimMc Well-Known Member

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    So using the gear at hand will cost more to kludge together because of a user uncertainty? This whole discussion centers around using the wrong product for the task at hand based on a presumption of unfitness for that task.

    This strikes me as a false economy.
     
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  12. FMEng

    FMEng Well-Known Member Fight Leukemia

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    There are a number of better ways to do this than the AW2816. Do you do your recordings in the same venue? If it's always the same place, what kind of front of house console is there? Most consoles these days have one or more ways to multi-track every channel.
     
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