Board upgrade
- Thread starterStoldal
- Start date
Oh, I could spend hours discussing the Compulite Animator, which was the first "trendy" console for moving lights, but was superseded quickly by the FPS WholeHogII. Bryan Hartley, LD for TSO used to have some sort of exclusive arrangement with them, but has recently migrated to HES Hog3. Compulite's consoles aren't used by that many in the US, but those who use them seem to like them. YMMV.
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Stoldal
Active Member
so ya, i have gotten some good feedback. so i guess the bottom line is we are getting what we are getting. the bid is set so not much can be changed.
My line of thinking now is when the big prduction come along i will rent the things that i need. I.e. control board and moving heads. You guys are very right moving lights is not a very wise way of spending the lighting budget.
My line of thinking now is when the big prduction come along i will rent the things that i need. I.e. control board and moving heads. You guys are very right moving lights is not a very wise way of spending the lighting budget.
I've actually written several times about this... thus aparently it's now "the gafftaper method". I should write a book "A method for lighting the stage... with toys".
Anyway. The reality is this. Most high schools have no faculty or staff who know anything about tech. Every few years a student comes along like yourself MStoldal who actually wants to learn how to do it right. The knowledge blooms and things get used. Then it fades and the gear goes on unused again. Thus Charc found an I-cue in a store room with no one who knew what it was. The Mac-500's will find their way to the store room eventually because they won't have the money to replace the lamps, or no how to turn them on.
For my theater I had about $40k to play with for lighting toys. I could have purchased several nice movers with that. Instead I got:
4 I-cues
4 right arms
2 rotators
2 dmx irises
2 Rosco Infinity animators
8 Seachangers
12 Seachanger wash
8 Selecon Zoom ERSes with all the gear to laser print my own color transparencies and project them.
I can do just about everything that a moving head can do with that list of gear. But it's all in components. Most of the time in a theater production you only need one or two effects... you don't need all of them in a Mac2k. I've mentioned my friend who is violently opposed to high schools owning rotators. His feeling is they are incredibly expensive and delicate. By the time you buy the power supply and cable you can easily be over $1000. You need it once every other year probably... maybe not even that. Why buy one? It'll just end up in the closet anyway because no one will know how to make it work in a year or two.
Yes there are exceptions. There are high schools with big performing arts centers who pay real technicians to run the space and no how the gear works. There are also mega high school programs with faculty who really know what they are doing. But in general, the vast majority of high school theaters just needs a lot of conventional gear.
Anyway. The reality is this. Most high schools have no faculty or staff who know anything about tech. Every few years a student comes along like yourself MStoldal who actually wants to learn how to do it right. The knowledge blooms and things get used. Then it fades and the gear goes on unused again. Thus Charc found an I-cue in a store room with no one who knew what it was. The Mac-500's will find their way to the store room eventually because they won't have the money to replace the lamps, or no how to turn them on.
For my theater I had about $40k to play with for lighting toys. I could have purchased several nice movers with that. Instead I got:
4 I-cues
4 right arms
2 rotators
2 dmx irises
2 Rosco Infinity animators
8 Seachangers
12 Seachanger wash
8 Selecon Zoom ERSes with all the gear to laser print my own color transparencies and project them.
I can do just about everything that a moving head can do with that list of gear. But it's all in components. Most of the time in a theater production you only need one or two effects... you don't need all of them in a Mac2k. I've mentioned my friend who is violently opposed to high schools owning rotators. His feeling is they are incredibly expensive and delicate. By the time you buy the power supply and cable you can easily be over $1000. You need it once every other year probably... maybe not even that. Why buy one? It'll just end up in the closet anyway because no one will know how to make it work in a year or two.
Yes there are exceptions. There are high schools with big performing arts centers who pay real technicians to run the space and no how the gear works. There are also mega high school programs with faculty who really know what they are doing. But in general, the vast majority of high school theaters just needs a lot of conventional gear.
Down here in houston, there has been a big trend for highschools to want movers and more schools are pushing for Clay Pakys and Robe. There is one school i have been doing some work with and they have 24 moving lights (12 hard edge, 12 washes) all clay paky. Very nice rig, all backed by the ETC congo jr. The building they are starting to work on, they are planning to go with all clay paky once again along with the ETC congo, ION, or go with Avolite.
Wouldn't product from that little lighting company in Austin (not Harry Little Lighting Co.) or even the Danish company make more sense geographically?
Stoldal
Active Member
I agree with you gafftaper, but with one difference i am not a student at that high school. But that aside you are right. we have been using analog, i only started using DMX at this school two years ago, and that was for the Cyberlight CX. Like i said we have four of those. DMX is a very new idea, and the idea of programed cue and program effects.
When the time come around in a few year, they may still want to buy moving heads. But if they still do i think what i will try to get them to do is purchase maybe 2 at most moving heads, and then use the other money to purchase other more important things like a new board. Or i may not have to worry about it because the money may be cut, like drama money always is. WE will see when that time comes around.
For now i just want to do the best with what we have. I am having a meeting in the next few weeks with a drama dept head. I am hoping he will be able to answer some of my questions.
I am going to talk to him about not getting LED lights, we were going to get 20 of them at $500 each, at the last time i checked. If they are set on getting LED lights, what LED lights should we get?
When the time come around in a few year, they may still want to buy moving heads. But if they still do i think what i will try to get them to do is purchase maybe 2 at most moving heads, and then use the other money to purchase other more important things like a new board. Or i may not have to worry about it because the money may be cut, like drama money always is. WE will see when that time comes around.
For now i just want to do the best with what we have. I am having a meeting in the next few weeks with a drama dept head. I am hoping he will be able to answer some of my questions.
I am going to talk to him about not getting LED lights, we were going to get 20 of them at $500 each, at the last time i checked. If they are set on getting LED lights, what LED lights should we get?
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20 X $500 = $10,000
$10,000/$400 = 25
I would go in and say that for the same money you can get 25 PAR64s with scrollers which will be inherently more useful, brighter, and won't be obsolete in a year. They will be easier to maintain, you won't care if a fixture gets broken as they only cost between $40-$60.
I know that some people here have had success with LED fixtures, but it just isn't ready for the middle-of-the-road user. You have two options right now, low end DJ type gear and extremely high end, expensive gear that you probably don't want high school kids even looking at.
Stoldal
Active Member
here is the link to the LED that they are thinking of gettingColor Blast 12
I wholeheartedly agree with Icewolf08, unless we are talking specifically about light a cyc or drops. In that case, I would go with 30-32 cells of 500W T-3 cyc floods, (one example: The Runt™), in three (RBG) or four (RBGA) "circuits." Your theatre is spec'd for 300 dimmers, so hopefully 20 or so are dedicated to the cyc electric.
Things are changing too fast in LED technology. For theatre use, it's better to go with traditional systems, in my opinion. And your Innovator will be just fine.
It's not the tools, it's what you make with them.
All of us, at times, get caught up in the must-have/new-technology, trap. But is really is a trap, don't fall for it.
Things are changing too fast in LED technology. For theatre use, it's better to go with traditional systems, in my opinion. And your Innovator will be just fine.
It's not the tools, it's what you make with them.
All of us, at times, get caught up in the must-have/new-technology, trap. But is really is a trap, don't fall for it.
While that's an excellent fixture, it's very likely that within two years, something better and less expensive will be available, at which point the second-hand market will be flooded with "pre-owned" models of these, and/or it will behoove you to buy the newer model, as costs drop. Yes, I have buyer's remorse every time Apple releases a new model--on the other hand, I usually buy "factory-refurb" units at a discount.
Another example: the Versatube was a huge success in concerts a few years ago, until the Versatube HD came out. Now, top designers and tours will not use the original, so what's a rental company supposed to do? Sell them off cheap (hopefully they've paid for themselves) and buy the HD model.
Just my 2¢. /rant off.
Stoldal
Active Member
I planed to use the LED to light the cyc xor drops. and gels for everything else. But i don'tp have any control over where the are installed. But i light, i mean like, your idea better.
I know, i am happy that i can move on from using TTI lighting products, don't get me wrong i have been using them for almost 4 year and i have really ever had a problem. I would like to have tech that is know to work and has a good back ground of working. This thread has kinda gone all over the place, and has giving me lost to talk about to the dept chair. I just wonder would you guys say that Innovator is "State-of-the-Art Lighting & Sound".
Like i said before i am happy with what we are getting, i am just think ahead to the furture.
I know, i am happy that i can move on from using TTI lighting products, don't get me wrong i have been using them for almost 4 year and i have really ever had a problem. I would like to have tech that is know to work and has a good back ground of working. This thread has kinda gone all over the place, and has giving me lost to talk about to the dept chair. I just wonder would you guys say that Innovator is "State-of-the-Art Lighting & Sound".
Like i said before i am happy with what we are getting, i am just think ahead to the furture.
The problem with our school was that we were told the installer of the lighting system pretty much told us off. As far as how true that is I don't know, I think it was more of an issue of the building manager being lazy. As supposedly the sound company finally came in months after I kept requesting him to get them in and they said the speaker needed a board replaced, yet it was just the EQ that was muted in the back rack. (The sound company never really came out he was just making it up)
Anyways the install was done Spring of 2006. Opened for fall of 2006. The board locking up was never resolved and when I went back for a visit the board was having even more issues than before with you hitting a button and it would double it. So if you changed a value it would double whatever it was. The problem with these boards is they dont seem to work to well with computing too much. Basic shows lights on and off sure, but anything more advanced like pre-cued shows and intelligent lights seem like they'd be a major issue.
The Lutron system wasn't associated with the board as it would do it even when the board was off.
Well, as with most issues of this magnitude I would advise you to contact the manufacturer. If they don't know about the problem, they can't fix it. But once they know, a quality manufacturer will do everything in their power, up to and including, but not limited to, sending you a new console.
Leviton Mfg. Company Inc.
59-25 Little Neck Pkwy.
Little Neck, NY 11362-2591
Phone: 800.824.3005
Fax: 800.832.9538
If you need/want a name, Ken Vannice is one of the top engineers for NSI/COlortran/Leviton, and is very active in USITT and ESTA.
Mstoldal, take note of this too, you may need the info soon also.
Leviton Mfg. Company Inc.
59-25 Little Neck Pkwy.
Little Neck, NY 11362-2591
Phone: 800.824.3005
Fax: 800.832.9538
If you need/want a name, Ken Vannice is one of the top engineers for NSI/COlortran/Leviton, and is very active in USITT and ESTA.
Mstoldal, take note of this too, you may need the info soon also.
The innovator would be more "state of mediocrity". "State of the Art" would be EOS, Ion, one of the Strand Palettes, or Congo (probably in that order depending on who you are arguing with). Any other brand of lighting console is definitely not state of the art right now. (Unless we are talking about moving lights consoles where you get into the GrandMA's, Hog, Maxxyz, etc...).
The color Blast 12 also is hardly state of the art, if my memory is correct it's been around for about 3 or 4 years now. Notice they just list it as 36 "high power" leds. They don't Say Luxeon they don't say 3 watt, they don't even say 1 watt... just "high power". Trust me everyone else brags about the wattage of their products. I believe this is because these LED's have been around a while. The "state of the art" LED lights at this point are pretty much all based on 3 watt Luxeon K2 LED's.
I've said it a lot around here, but if I could pick any LED product right now it would be the Seledor X7-xtra. They are a serious stage lighting instrument that can keep up with conventional gear... IF you have enough of them. Unfortunately they are REALLY expensive and it will cost you close to $100k to light a 40' cyc. That's enough LED's to light a cyc bright enough that it won't wash out when conventionals are also in use.
As Icewolf said right now all the LED's are expensive. There is the cheap stuff that is useless when used with standard lighting gear and there is the really high end stuff that you can't afford.
Good luck switching consoles. It's worth it if you can pull it off.
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