Brand Spanking New Theatre Facility

[venuetech]

freight elevator at least large enough for a 9' concert grand piano.

Large generous amounts of HVAC for the green room. that or you can buy lots of box fans to prop in doorways for those large cast shows. system must be designed for the maximum occupant load + not the average

 

[mbepting]

Yeah as designs are coming through the most important thing you can do is to imagine you are doing all the different types of events in the building, in your case more than one at the same time. How are you going to handle things when crew needs to get rapidly from one space to another? Where are people in costume going to travel? How are you going to deal with large set pieces? Can you build in the shop while there is a class in the black box?

Go through every event you have done in the last year and imagine how it would work in the blueprints. This is how you discover the need for extra doors. In my case I fought a long time to get a door between the green room and costume shop. In the end I was proven right that it would be a critical access on a daily basis, but the architects had no idea how important it would be.

Very good points. Thanks. I have about three weeks until the first design meeting. I'm going to have quite the list of questions and concerns.

 

[AlexDonkle]

Go through every event you have done in the last year and imagine how it would work in the blueprints. This is how you discover the need for extra doors.

One addition is that if the project is being designed in Revit (a 3-D modeling program, used on most new buildings) you may be able to request "walk-throughs" of the building from the architect, rendered in 3D. Reviewing blueprints is definitely helpful, however unless you look at a lot of them on a daily basis they're not always the most intuitive way to look at a new building. If you can get a 3-D walkthrough generated going from stage, to backstage, to the scene shop, etc. you'll likely be able to spot issues much more easily than you could on the standard 2-D sheets.

 

[gafftaper]

And when that first meeting is done be sure to get your own copy of the blueprints that you can take back to your office and have your team go over again and again imagining every worst case scenario of how the theater will be used and how things will flow.

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

Due to some odd circumstances, they were not able to go with the people that do the majority of this type of work in our area. I don't know who they went with. I will see what I can find out.

I'm just curious if you are talking about a professional, full time theatre consultant, or sales reps and/or moon-lighting educators.

 

[kiwitechgirl]

We had a theatre rebuilt in about 2005 and I think the most useful thing they did was put in a continual trap all the way up each wing and across the upstage. It's covered by panels so you just lift the panel wherever you need to; the trap contains single phase hard power, 3 phase power, dimmer outlets and DMX patch points (there is a DMX patch bay in dimmerland) regularly spaced all the way along. You can plug in whatever you want, wherever you want to - very well thought out and works brilliantly. Each panel has a corner piece which is removable so you can run cables up then put the panel back in place.

 

[TheaterEd]

Oh I also just realized recently that I have no DMX output on the stage..... I have one on each electric, but none at stage level... That would be helpful.

 

[StradivariusBone]

Oh I also just realized recently that I have no DMX output on the stage..... I have one on each electric, but none at stage level... That would be helpful.

We have none anywhere. Newer buildings in our area built off the same original design have outputs like it's going out of style. I guess it's the difference between 1995 and 2000+?

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

We've gone all network and nodes. Network taps everywhere - very inexpensive compared to distributed DMX, and I believe longer lived.

As far as doors, circulation, etc, depends but generally if you can get a medium size car and a 21' joint of pipe on stage, you'll be good. If building scenery, you may want a taller path shop to stag, but usually 8' x 10' is OK for stuff from a truck. And depending on if much comes in on trucks, a dock and space for trailer to be level - no exceptions - no matter the cost.

 

[TheaterEd]

We've gone all network and nodes. Network taps everywhere - very inexpensive compared to distributed DMX, and I believe longer lived.

As far as doors, circulation, etc, depends but generally if you can get a medium size car and a 21' joint of pipe on stage, you'll be good. If building scenery, you may want a taller path shop to stag, but usually 8' x 10' is OK for stuff from a truck. And depending on if much comes in on trucks, a dock and space for trailer to be level - no exceptions - no matter the cost.

so if I were to grab a pair of THESE and a couple cat5 cables I should be able to send dmx to a network jack on my stage?

 

[llburg]

so if I were to grab a pair of THESE and a couple cat5 cables I should be able to send dmx to a network jack on my stage?

Yes, if it was just a plain cable wired straight through. (Patch panel is probably fine) If it goes through a switch/hub/router then those won't work. They just change the connector, no "smart" circuitry.

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

You do that at your own risk. We're designing for a network with nodes. I'm not sure if you connect network devices and DMX devices inadvertently if either us damaged or if everything simply doesn't work. We do uyse cat5 for dedicated DMX but don't support DMX on RJ45 connectors.

 

[Footer]

You do that at your own risk. We're designing for a network with nodes. I'm not sure if you connect network devices and DMX devices inadvertently if either us damaged or if everything simply doesn't work. We do uyse cat5 for dedicated DMX but don't support DMX on RJ45 connectors.

Either way all lines should always terminate into a patch panel then go to whatever gear you need to. This rule should apply to all low voltage lines no matter the department. That will allow the building owners the most flexibility down the line.

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

Either way all lines should always terminate into a patch panel then go to whatever gear you need to. This rule should apply to all low voltage lines no matter the department. That will allow the building owners the most flexibility down the line.

Well, tcpip networks, by the rules, must basically include a patch panel. But this us pretty inexpensive compared to a dmx patch panel, and I still recommend against mixing protocols in a patch panel. We do generally provide a (poe) switch or switches for the lighting network sufficient for all taps plus some for expansion. Too inexpensive to not do that. Enough dmx splitters for 20-30 taps is a different story, not to mention for multiple universes.

 

[robartsd]

Well, tcpip networks, by the rules, must basically include a patch panel. But this us pretty inexpensive compared to a dmx patch panel, and I still recommend against mixing protocols in a patch panel. We do generally provide a (poe) switch or switches for the lighting network sufficient for all taps plus some for expansion. Too inexpensive to not do that. Enough dmx splitters for 20-30 taps is a different story, not to mention for multiple universes.

The purpose of the DMX patch panel would be to reduce the number of spiltters needed. You'd just patch the taps in use to the splitter for the appropriate universe - the number of taps in use would determine the splitters needed, not the number of taps availible.

 

[SteveB]

The purpose of the DMX patch panel would be to reduce the number of spiltters needed. You'd just patch the taps in use to the splitter for the appropriate universe - the number of taps in use would determine the splitters needed, not the number of taps availible.

I think for a small system and a small theater, I can (and have) seen a DMX distributed system as more cost effective then Cat5/TCP/IP and that's only if the budget is so low that nodes are too expensive.

In most applications though, a Cat5 Node based system is a much better choice, especially if there are any plans or hopes to expand into movers and LED's, as the node system offers greater capabilities to expand into multiple DMX universes. Cat5 is not useful everywhere though, I don't run it out to my electrics, that's all DMX. But I have nodes in locations where I can then distribute DMX as needed. So planning for a mix of both is a good idea, especially as there are locations where you can't place a node (like the stage floor trenches KiwiTechGirl descibes).

 

[venuetech]

ac outlet / com / mic line / network ports at center house where the tech table is likely to go.

 

[RickR]

IF? there are plans for LED? We are all being dragged into LEDs no matter what. PLAN on far more DMX than a conventional rig would ever dream of having!

I'm doing a mixed DMX and audio patch set up. The right wire and 3pin connectors make DMX possible. So we can now route DMX out of and into various floor/wall/ceiling pockets. Or the audio can plug in/out the same way. We just can't do both.

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

The purpose of the DMX patch panel would be to reduce the number of spiltters needed. You'd just patch the taps in use to the splitter for the appropriate universe - the number of taps in use would determine the splitters needed, not the number of taps availible.

So you could not likely have two universes at one position, like one for movers and one for LEDs, and maybe some other effect on another? I jut think DMX distro is limiting and that the network approach removes all those limits.

 

[MNicolai]

The purpose of the DMX patch panel would be to reduce the number of spiltters needed.

You don't need any splitters in a node configuration. If anything, you break even between nodes and splitters because optosplitters aren't exactly inexpensive on their own, in spite of their rather limited functionality. In other words, an installation infrastructure based on optosplitters is far less bang for the buck than using nodes.

I jut think DMX distro is limiting and that the network approach removes all those limits.

I second this. Twisted pair cable is cheap as are network switches. Yes, nodes can be a little pricey for very, very small systems that need minimal distribution, but any moderately sized venue will find nodes to be a more practical, user-friendly, and cost-effective approach.

You can also use nodes in any number of configurations. If you like to use the system one way, you can set it up for that. Five years later when you've moved on and someone else is running the show, they can arrange the system how they want to use it.