Brand Spanking New Theatre Facility

In most applications though, a Cat5 Node based system is a much better choice, especially if there are any plans or hopes to expand into movers and LED's, as the node system offers greater capabilities to expand into multiple DMX universes. Cat5 is not useful everywhere though, I don't run it out to my electrics, that's all DMX. But I have nodes in locations where I can then distribute DMX as needed. So planning for a mix of both is a good idea, especially as there are locations where you can't place a node (like the stage floor trenches KiwiTechGirl descibes).

Let's not get into the fact that the venue @kiwitechgirl is referring to extensively uses DMX over Ethernet, and knowing how they work, the trenches probably ARE big enough to fit a node in ;)

I think anywhere you can get a 3 phase Wilco in, you can probably fit a node in too...
 
One of the problems with the way our buildings are funded and constructed is the now or never aspect. Simply, you'll get things in a new building that you would seldom get funding for to add or upgrade in an existing building. So, if you've grown from just dimmers into distributed dmx, it may make sense to keep that. But if starting from scratch with a new building and much more funding than you'll ever get in the future, put in the systems that will continue to grow and expand. Dmx seens to be close to maxed out, and any perceived savings will be less than the incudentsl expenses for one design meeting for a new building.
 
In all that empty conduit that om4eccv told you to install up above?

Permanent pull ropes. Really good ones. Parachute cord.

You got a hundred foot conduit? Put 210 feet of pull rope with a permanent stopper on each end so it can't pull out. Marked in the middle. Preferably with a hook in the middle to attach cable pulls to. Assume you're going to pull a 32 channel snake with it.
 
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Do you have any other local facilities you can tour and talk? For this size investment, 1-200 mi is "local"... :)
 
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Let's not get into the fact that the venue @kiwitechgirl is referring to extensively uses DMX over Ethernet, and knowing how they work, the trenches probably ARE big enough to fit a node in ;)

I think anywhere you can get a 3 phase Wilco in, you can probably fit a node in too...

Actually I wasn't referring to the Opera House! The one I referenced is from my former life in Christchurch NZ - the Isaac Theatre Royal which has just been re-opened after a complete auditorium/FOH rebuild post-earthquake - they kept the facade and the stage house, and saved the painted canvas dome, and knocked everything between them down and completely rebuilt it. They kept sections of all the ornate plasterwork (and must have taken a huge stack of photos) and replicated it almost exactly. I haven't seen it in the flesh yet but the photos look fantastic.
 
On well, I got it wrong, that happens sometimes.
(Especially since the House did renovate the Western venues around 2004-5 ;) )
 
In the past few years I have worked in several brand new build theatres made by some of the world's leading new-theatre consultants. And the sad fact is that they are all still making a hash of them again and again. I've seen some howlers from companies with excellent reputations and portfolios. Without a doubt, the best way to get yourself a brilliant space is to use a theatre design consultant, but keep a firm hold on it yourself; and ensure the consultant's direct client (IE your boss / ops mgr / whoever is leading your project) supports you on maintaining that grip. These companies employ excellent sales talkers who will pull your organisation into buying things they don't need, whilst vastly overlooking essentials with low profit margins. I'm not calling them negligent or fraudsters... but these things do happen, they're businesses and need to make a profit after all. All the best builds I've seen the past few years have had a knowledgeable technical director keeping the design consultants on a tight leash.

Onto the technical front, there is a lot of good information here already. I would contribute the following:

ACCESS
- Try and factor in LX access so that as many fixtures as humanly possible can be focussed by standing next to them. Think catwalks/bridges; galleries; tension wire grid; etc.
- Try and offer lifts to as many parts of the building as possible. The lift should be able to take equipment and people, but needn't be too big.
- Make sure the truck dock is sized suitably for the type of vehicle that you receive most of your shows in; but that you stock a few alu ramps to adapt to other vehicles.
- Try to get all the doors in the building done from swipe cards. They're not that expensive, and allow you to tailor access rights to every individual working in the venue.

STORAGE
- Make sure each department has plenty of storage for all of their equipment, with as much at ground level as possible, and the rest with lift access (see above).
- Fit stores and workshops with hot power outlets and ethernet (see below).
- Fit stores and workshops with soundproof (or at least heavy) doors so that work can take place in them whilst there is something happening on stage
- If putting stores / workshops along the up stage wall, ensure there's an 8' gap between the wall and the u/s flybar, else you will end up with the stores obstructed by a cloth.

CONNECTIVITY
- It should be designed in so that connectivity into any power, data, comms, etc circuit is possible from any place to any place. Obviously this will also need to factor in things such as patchbays, network switches, etc.
- Have facility panels with access to power, data, comms, etc installed in the grid, in the galleries, on stage both on the walls and under traps; in FOH, in stores, in backstage areas etc etc.
- In lighting bridges, galleries, towers etc... fit your dimmer outlets the same side as the rigging bar. This prevents cables running over the walkway
- Use IWBs where possible for lighting circuits and DMX
- Run DMX over ethernet using sACN, use ethernet nodes to break out into DMX. My preference is not to install nodes, but to keep a stock of them, and install ethernet points everywhere. Then you can add a node as and where required.

COMMS
- Install XLR points for wired comms as per connectivity above
- Use wireless comms only for roles where wired comms are impractical. do not rely on wireless across the whole theatre
- Issue crew with 2-way radios, with headsets for show environments and speaker mics for working time; plus radio pouches. much less chance of radio being dropped
- Use analogue 2-way radio, not digital, to avoid latency which can be problematic when focussing etc
- Install several wifi networks around the venue. "Show" networks for things like LX RFU / Sound desk control / etc etc; but also install regular internet access throughout the venue, with separate nets for house crew, company, and audience.
 
We've gone all network and nodes. Network taps everywhere - very inexpensive compared to distributed DMX, and I believe longer lived.

As far as doors, circulation, etc, depends but generally if you can get a medium size car and a 21' joint of pipe on stage, you'll be good. If building scenery, you may want a taller path shop to stag, but usually 8' x 10' is OK for stuff from a truck. And depending on if much comes in on trucks, a dock and space for trailer to be level - no exceptions - no matter the cost.
So I was up on the catwalk yesterday and I took notice of the DMX outputs up there. I have around 8 DMX outputs on the catwalk. Also, one in each of the side pockets. That makes 14 DMX outputs throughout the theater that they installed, and none of them are at the stage level.....

Had myself a little chuckle at that. Thought I would share with you.

- Try to get all the doors in the building done from swipe cards. They're not that expensive, and allow you to tailor access rights to every individual working in the venue.
This is a particularly interesting idea that I am quite a fan of and would have saved me from a current headache that I have. Rather than swipe cards, I would prefer fobs.
 
In the past few years I have worked in several brand new build theatres made by some of the world's leading new-theatre consultants. And the sad fact is that they are all still making a hash of them again and again. I've seen some howlers from companies with excellent reputations and portfolios. Without a doubt, the best way to get yourself a brilliant space is to use a theatre design consultant, but keep a firm hold on it yourself; and ensure the consultant's direct client (IE your boss / ops mgr / whoever is leading your project) supports you on maintaining that grip. These companies employ excellent sales talkers who will pull your organisation into buying things they don't need, whilst vastly overlooking essentials with low profit margins. I'm not calling them negligent or fraudsters... but these things do happen, they're businesses and need to make a profit after all. All the best builds I've seen the past few years have had a knowledgeable technical director keeping the design consultants on a tight leash.

Onto the technical front, there is a lot of good information here already. I would contribute the following:

ACCESS
- Try and factor in LX access so that as many fixtures as humanly possible can be focussed by standing next to them. Think catwalks/bridges; galleries; tension wire grid; etc.
- Try and offer lifts to as many parts of the building as possible. The lift should be able to take equipment and people, but needn't be too big.
- Make sure the truck dock is sized suitably for the type of vehicle that you receive most of your shows in; but that you stock a few alu ramps to adapt to other vehicles.
- Try to get all the doors in the building done from swipe cards. They're not that expensive, and allow you to tailor access rights to every individual working in the venue.

STORAGE
- Make sure each department has plenty of storage for all of their equipment, with as much at ground level as possible, and the rest with lift access (see above).
- Fit stores and workshops with hot power outlets and ethernet (see below).
- Fit stores and workshops with soundproof (or at least heavy) doors so that work can take place in them whilst there is something happening on stage
- If putting stores / workshops along the up stage wall, ensure there's an 8' gap between the wall and the u/s flybar, else you will end up with the stores obstructed by a cloth.

CONNECTIVITY
- It should be designed in so that connectivity into any power, data, comms, etc circuit is possible from any place to any place. Obviously this will also need to factor in things such as patchbays, network switches, etc.
- Have facility panels with access to power, data, comms, etc installed in the grid, in the galleries, on stage both on the walls and under traps; in FOH, in stores, in backstage areas etc etc.
- In lighting bridges, galleries, towers etc... fit your dimmer outlets the same side as the rigging bar. This prevents cables running over the walkway
- Use IWBs where possible for lighting circuits and DMX
- Run DMX over ethernet using sACN, use ethernet nodes to break out into DMX. My preference is not to install nodes, but to keep a stock of them, and install ethernet points everywhere. Then you can add a node as and where required.

COMMS
- Install XLR points for wired comms as per connectivity above
- Use wireless comms only for roles where wired comms are impractical. do not rely on wireless across the whole theatre
- Issue crew with 2-way radios, with headsets for show environments and speaker mics for working time; plus radio pouches. much less chance of radio being dropped
- Use analogue 2-way radio, not digital, to avoid latency which can be problematic when focussing etc
- Install several wifi networks around the venue. "Show" networks for things like LX RFU / Sound desk control / etc etc; but also install regular internet access throughout the venue, with separate nets for house crew, company, and audience.

Would be interesting to know who your are calling "the world's leading theatre consultants", as they seem to be manufacturer's and contractor's sales reps, not independent design professionals. Nothing has higher or lower margins for me - I have a lump sum fee agreement long before the design is barely started and strive for balance throughout the facility - no gold plated lobbies and crap rigging, nor the other way around.
 
This is a particularly interesting idea that I am quite a fan of and would have saved me from a current headache that I have. Rather than swipe cards, I would prefer fobs.

That's a preference thing. One of the nice things about swipe cards is that you can print the staff member's ID card onto it - so that if access of certain areas is very controlled, security are able to check that the person possessing the swipe card is also the person that's supposed to be possessing the swipe card. This comes down to what kind of security you really need.
 
Would be interesting to know who your are calling "the world's leading theatre consultants", as they seem to be manufacturer's and contractor's sales reps, not independent design professionals. Nothing has higher or lower margins for me - I have a lump sum fee agreement long before the design is barely started and strive for balance throughout the facility - no gold plated lobbies and crap rigging, nor the other way around.

That's very good of your Bill, but you know as well as I do that it's not the case across the board. Right now I am working on replacing the lighting design for a venue, the installers installed what are frankly the wrong fixtures for the job, in the wrong places; and made their money up in custom screen printed patch panels and power distro. If as much money had been spent on a lighting designer (in the first place) and decent lights, and used off the shelf patch panels not these bespoke made lovelies from the installers, it'd be a much better job.
 
That's very good of your Bill, but you know as well as I do that it's not the case across the board. Right now I am working on replacing the lighting design for a venue, the installers installed what are frankly the wrong fixtures for the job, in the wrong places; and made their money up in custom screen printed patch panels and power distro. If as much money had been spent on a lighting designer (in the first place) and decent lights, and used off the shelf patch panels not these bespoke made lovelies from the installers, it'd be a much better job.

A true consultant is never the installer, dealer, or vendor. If someone who is hired as a consultant gets a kickback from an installer, dealer, or vendor that he/she recommends without disclosing it, then they are a salesperson who is committing fraud.
 
A true consultant is never the installer, dealer, or vendor. If someone who is hired as a consultant gets a kickback from an installer, dealer, or vendor that he/she recommends without disclosing it, then they are a salesperson who is committing fraud.
One of the requirements of membership in the American Society of Theatre Consultants, the organization for professional theatre consultants, is no commercial ties. All of the criteria is here: http://theatreconsultants.org/members/prospective-members-interns/

Sign up for the news letter while there if interested.
 
No commercial ties and not being an installer are two naive metrics for the quality of a consultant.

There's nothing wrong about being a dealer, vendor, or an installer as a consultant in and of itself. If there's a kickback involved, then certainly that's a substantial conflict of interest. If the consultant is also the installer or vendor on that particular project, then that has potential to become a conflict of interest.

Firm I work for does both contracting and consulting, and we've been given grief by other consultants for running a consulting division and a contracting division inside of the same company. They seem to think that that necessarily means our designs are somehow corrupt. They're full of bologna.

As a contracting/consulting firm, there's some incredible value in having installation experience that helps inform your design, and consulting experience that informs your installations. We specify equipment for our designs based on our own experiences in contracting. That's not because we get a kickback -- we don't. It's because we wouldn't specify a piece of equipment or a system design that we ourselves wouldn't warranty and stamp our own names on. We even have an internal list of products and manufacturers we will not specify because of our own experiences seeing these pieces of equipment fail or certain manufacturers who have thoroughly illustrated to us that they are incapable of supporting their own product.

Having an institution with experience in installation and consulting means you have someone better prepared to coordinate with the other trades, both in the design phase of the project as well as during construction. The bigger the project, the more coordination required, and the more expensive a lack of coordination becomes.

I'm talking about having an acute awareness as to how you should or shouldn't let the electricians pipe their conduits because you know what makes a wire pull either a total success or a total disaster. I'm also talking about knowing how to have a productive conversation about electrical back boxes and the bend radii of different cables. Is it a sexy part of their job? Not really. Can it quickly become the difference between the project going off without a hitch or having to cancel that opening show a Broadway tour is booked for? You bet.

A consultant at a consulting/contracting firm is someone who can put their money where their mouth is. This is vital, because their design budget is actually your money, sometimes anywhere between six and eight digits worth. And you're trusting them with it.
 
One of the requirements of membership in the American Society of Theatre Consultants, the organization for professional theatre consultants, is no commercial ties. All of the criteria is here: http://theatreconsultants.org/members/prospective-members-interns/

Sign up for the news letter while there if interested.

NCAC has similar rules for acoustical consultants.

There's nothing wrong about being a dealer, vendor, or an installer as a consultant in and of itself. If there's a kickback involved, then certainly that's a substantial conflict of interest. If the consultant is also the installer or vendor on that particular project, then that has potential to become a conflict of interest.

Firm I work for does both contracting and consulting, and we've been given grief by other consultants for running a consulting division and a contracting division inside of the same company. They seem to think that that necessarily means our designs are somehow corrupt. They're full of bologna.

Consultant and design-build contractors are different types of businesses. Not that ones better than another, but manufacturers will always directly influence the contractor's profit margins since that's who the contractor has to buy from.

Being a independent consultant or a contractor doesn't inherently make anyone a good or bad designer. There are good and bad designers at both types of companies.
 
NCAC has similar rules for acoustical consultants.



Consultant and design-build contractors are different types of businesses. Not that ones better than another, but manufacturers will always directly influence the contractor's profit margins since that's who the contractor has to buy from.

Being a independent consultant or a contractor doesn't inherently make anyone a good or bad designer. There are good and bad designers at both types of companies.

I'm referring to a consultant who is involved with contracting at their business but not for that particular project. Design/build is a very different beast which I have mixed feelings about.

My grievance with ASTC is that to be a member, you cannot have a contracting portion of your business which you opt not to consult for. You must purely be a consultant with no affiliation to how jobs actually get installed so long as you remain a member.

Really my greater concern though is this notion that in order to be a reputable consultant, you need to appear to be blind to manufacturers and without preference.
 
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Members if ASTC are far from blind or without preferences, they just don't affect our income or the income of the company/employer.

Independent theatre consultants most often also have a much larger view and scope, far beyond just equipment and systems, and have invested the time and energy to become expert at those subjects. I have never seen a contractor/vendor acting as consultant that knows much at all about sight lines, ADA, or be very proficient at talking the Owners into spending much more than originally planned.

I just reject the notion that a "consultant" with contractor/vendor ties is never influenced by this.

And yes, I object that the contractor employed consultant is subsidized by sales of the contractor part of the business. Same as the educator moonlighting as consultant - that not only do they not have to be good enough to make it full time but the consulting is subsidized by the school in form of an office.
 
Mike, I have to agree with Bill on this one. As soon as you sell a product you might suggest a client in installing (as a consultant) you are now in the realm of conflict of interest. maybe not intentionally but it is there. You as the consultant know that specific product so you'd approach a problem differently than someone who knew about quite a few products but was not specialized in any single one. As a client I would want my consultant to look passed the gear they distribute and suggest the equipment that would make the most sense in terms of budget, ease of solution, and works well within the boundaries of the project. Too often I see contractors who are dealers for brands such as JBL or Strand and completely ignore the fact that there is no reason for a Vertec system in a space that has an adequate sound system already in place, or my favorite insisting the customer buy these strand lights to compliment the S4 inventory they already have.

I've seen "consultants" who work in the same company as "contractors" magically request specific requirements for a bid that only their "contractors" could provide with a specific product that they happen to sell. ASTC should really be the only source of consultants for new theaters or performance spaces TBH. Now should those consultants have install experience? Absolutely but as a consultant not as a contractor. They should have worked along side contractors to figure out how easily or cost effective that particular product or design is. Otherwise we would see motorized battens in every space with LED's as the only option for new venues. We know this isn't the case because most consultants check the products they are suggesting not just read the spec sheets and call it a day.
 

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