building a mixing console booth

[ametalguitarist]

I volunteer at a local youth center. We are in the process of planning to build a mixing console booth at the rear of the venue for concerts. Any suggestions on the height of the booth, distance from the stage, power requirements, building materials, etc...? I've been scouring the search engines for design ideas or blueprints but I'm having no luck.
thanks.

 

[facethewolf]

A couple ways to approach it...
First booth position in the room. Especially if you have a stereo main mix, you want to put the booth, and specifically the sound board as close to the center BETWEEN the left and Right mains as possible. If it's not possible to get to the center, oh well-but ideally, that's what you want. Front to back, you can put the booth in the center of the room (if it's a large room) or at the back of the room, but distance from stage is not nearly as important as lateral position.
With height, the thing to keep in mind is that you want to hear EXACTLY what the audience hears. And a sound booth that's too high hears sound differently than the audience does. However some considerations necessitate going high. It's easier to secure a high sound booth from thievery. At any rate you at least want the booth 2 feet higher than the floor so that a seated soundman can still see over the heads of the standing audience.
All that being said, my soundbooth is 12 feet higher than the main floor because my sound booth is on the balcony. I simply keep it mind when mixing, and occassionally go down to the floor to make sure it still sounds good down there. You eventually learn how to compensate with certain frequencies and volumes.

Size: in an ideal world, the bigger the better. Consider room for the board of course, but also for the equipment rack(s), the lighting console, computer(s), video control, drawers for odds and ends, legroom, spot to put the video camera tripod (and don't kid yourself, there will of course be a necessity to set it up in the booth). Ergonomics for multiple people to move about in it.

Power: I have quite a bit of stuff in my booth, but I only use 2 20-amp circuits with room to spare. Might want to get a third circuit if you have a lot of video equipment.
Materials: The more solid the better. Formica works great. Talk to carpenters about designing a booth with nooks and crannies for equipment racks and drawers. There is a certain amount of liberation about being able to climb up ON the counters with all 200 pounds of my weight so that I can get access to the back of the equipment.
Keep a 2inch hole saw on hand for punching holes for cables and ventilation.
Oh well, my 2 cents.

 

[Footer]

Here are your ideals....
-Back of the house (100'-150' from the stage if it is a large room)
-Centered in the room
-No weird acoustics that a back wall gives you
-Same power as your amps/processing gear has
-At least 2-20amps circuits
-Easy cable run from stage to FOH, preferably through a trough
-18" to 24" above audience level so you can see over audience
-At least 12' of counterspace

The list can go on. It really depends on your house. For a quick and dirty club venue a few 8' tables, a riser, and some bicycle rack usually does it. It can also go the hardwood route or something in between. All in all, it really just depends on the venue, the type of gear used, and if anyone is going to be bringing in gear on a tour. In my venue, FOH can double in size very quickly, so we are prepared for that. Its not uncommon to have our heritage, our express, a road LX console, and a road mixing console FOH... making our FOH about 30' long... so not everyone is going to have the same needs. Just be sure everything is built to code.

 

[museav]

I'll have to disagree with the others on one aspect and that is that centered is not necessarily the ideal place for the mix position and a bit off center may be better. Being off center can potentially provide a bit better representation of what an average seat hears, including getting a better impression of the effects of panning and relative channel levels in stereo systems for the majority of the audience that is not perfectly equidistant from the speakers on either side.

Probably the biggest thing to keep in mind is that while it may seem to 'just be a booth', it sounds like you are talking about building a permanent, or at least semi-permanent, structure in a public assembly space. In that case addressing aspects such as electrical, ADA compliance, code compliance and so on could necessitate getting professionals or at least someone with the proper qualifications and experience involved in both the design and construction of the booth.

It would probably help if you could give a little more information on how you plan to use the booth, how you operate now, what equipment might be going in the booth, whether it needs to be secured when not in use and so on.

 

[Footer]

I'll have to disagree with the others on one aspect and that is that centered is not necessarily the ideal place for the mix position and a bit off center may be better. Being off center can potentially provide a bit better representation of what an average seat hears, including getting a better impression of the effects of panning and relative channel levels in stereo systems for the majority of the audience that is not perfectly equidistant from the speakers on either side.

Unfortunately though, if you do decide to go that route, you are going to have to hear about it from every engineer that hits the venue. Our console is off center about 15' and nearly every engineer complains about it. Something to think about if you ever have to fulfill riders.

 

[ametalguitarist]

Awesome thanks for the help!
My style of doing sound is rather active. While sound check is happening I'll run around the whole room then back to the board to tweak then run around again to make sure it's all as consistent as possible. So in all probability we'll center it for the squatters.

This is a permanent booth that will be going in and there is already a light booth but IMO it's too high...about 8' off the floor. That's why I don't want to make it the sound booth too. I would prefer to pour concrete for the floor and cinder blocks for the walls of the booth but I don't know if I can get that one to fly with the owners. Our booth floor at church is wood and it really does make the bass sound different than the carpet covered concrete floor in the rest of the room. At the youth center it's painted concrete floors with drywall walls and no ceiling really...just metal trusses about 25' high

A touring band is playing the venue next month and I'm anxious to see how they set everything up...including extending the stage as ours is too small for a band. The current set up is for a hip-hop night club so everything is in a DJ booth on the side of the stage...I hate it.

As far as codes go we do have a local contractor who is volunteering as well so he should know all our codes with exception for the lighting rigging which is a whole other topic and won't happen until the stage is expanded.

As far as security goes we definitely need to make it secure as some renters won't be using the system and won't be paying the deposit for it. My thought was a locking gate and a locking top and doors for the board and effects. The light booth is already lockable as it's about a 4' decline from the upper balcony with a guard rail/ gate setup

 

[derekleffew]

Lots of discussion on a similar topic in this thread: http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/...operations/14490-where-start-build-booth.html .

 

[museav]

Unfortunately though, if you do decide to go that route, you are going to have to hear about it from every engineer that hits the venue. Our console is off center about 15' and nearly every engineer complains about it. Something to think about if you ever have to fulfill riders.

That's interesting to know as a number of the nicer facilities for which I've been involved in the design and construction as well as many of the venues I've mixed in have booths off center and it's never been an issue, at least as far as I know. Maybe they're mixing more for them or for certain 'money seats' than for the audience in general.

The same general issue applies to audio system tuning and alignment. As the relationships to speakers and the room vary based on the receiver location there are many aspects of that effort that are receiver location dependent. Some people look at the overall listener area and try to derive a 'best fit' tuning that may not be ideal for any one location but provides the best 'average' result over a larger area. Others pick a point, usually the FOH mix location or where the benefactors/administration/producers/VIPs sit and align for that location, not really worrying about the rest of the listeners. I think the concept behind a centered FOH and aligning the system to that location is that it allows mixing based on the optimal conditions, the tradeoff is how well that mix then translates to all of the audience.

 

[AlaskaCC]

Church Sound Booth

Hello, I am new to the forum and appreciate the opportunity to ask for advice.

I am the worship leader at a church in Alaska. The sanctuary seats about 150. We presently have a small cabinet that holds a mixer, tape/cd players, a cd recorder and wireless mic receivers. The cabinet is about 40 inches square and is in close proximity to the stage light controls, essentially dimmer switches, and room lights.

We are contemplating a new sound booth - open and at the back of the church, not an enclosed room. I was doing some research and found these forums. It looks like a good group of skilled and informed people so I joined.

I consider myself a sound booth neophyte. There is no one else to lead so I stepped into the role. We desperately need a real sound booth with space for the mixer, remote video, computer and the other pieces. A skilled contractor has agreed to do the work. He has done other sound booths and cabinetry work and is now requesting a design.

I have read through several of the threads and got some good suggestions about location, height above the audience, power, localized lighting, etc. One challenging consideration is access to the back of equipment. Presently, I have to turn the cabinet around or pull a piece of hardware forward. Should we consider removable access panels? Is it possible to balance accessibility and appearance?

I think we can manage 10 feet of counter space. Should the surface be Formica or an equivalent material? Should the floor of the sound booth be carpeted? What about static electricity? The sound of shuffling feet or chairs moving?

The ability to secure the gear is important, so I expect to request locked drawers. Any recommendations on how to protect the mixer and other gear on the counter surface? Should we think about a roll top?

I sincerely appreciate your help.

Clay
alaskacc

 

[cpf]

A roll top is definitely the way to go for securing the board and associated bits. Either that or secure the entire booth area, which is even more of a ordeal. You say there will also be a computer, so look into a way to fold the monitor down, since a cabinet high enough to let a roll-top close over it will be impossible to see over while sitting down.

Carpeted floor to keep chair rolling noise to a minimum.

As for static electricity, I've never found it to be a real problem. All conductive equipment cases will (well, should!) be grounded, and most controls are plastic, so the likelihood of a damaging discharge through the internals of anything is unlikely.

For access to the back of equipment: removable panels for direct access to the back of the rack is ideal, but I've survived in many environments where I've had to crawl behind racks to get where I wanted... If you want it, go for it.

For countertop material: something that doesn't show scratches too much. Go for a semi-rough surface or you'll always have stuff skittering off onto the floor (another reason for carpeting!).

 

[derekleffew]

Above two posts have been moved here from another location.

See also
http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/stage-management-facility-operations/15613-building-booth.html
http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/...operations/14490-where-start-build-booth.html
but those threads are more about a closed "Control" booth rather than an open "mixing" booth.

 

[AlaskaCC]

Thanks. I had already looked through those before posting here, although I expect to sift through them again.

Clay

Above two posts have been moved here from another location.

See also
http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/stage-management-facility-operations/15613-building-booth.html
http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/...operations/14490-where-start-build-booth.html
but those threads are more about a closed "Control" booth rather than an open "mixing" booth.

 

[derekleffew]

Thanks. I had already looked through those before posting here, although I expect to sift through them again.

There's some valuable info in among the chaff.

Totally unrelated: I understand in some forums it's a huge bone of contention, but here on ControlBooth we only permit bottom posting and abhor top-posting. Why is Bottom-posting better than Top-posting

 

[venuetech]

Do an image search for something like "roll top audio desk" and "house of worship sound booth". Or "church sound booth design"

I had one venue that the security cover for the board was a road box like cover that had flat steel tangs that fit into slots cut in the counter top, add a padlock to the tang. It was very awkward and you had to find an out of the way place to store the monster.

 

[AlaskaCC]

There's some valuable info in among the chaff.

Totally unrelated: I understand in some forums it's a huge bone of contention, but here on ControlBooth we only permit bottom posting and abhor top-posting. Why is Bottom-posting better than Top-posting

March in time with the drummer!

Avoiding abhorrence.

 

[AlaskaCC]

Do an image search for something like "roll top audio desk" and "house of worship sound booth". Or "church sound booth design"

I had one venue that the security cover for the board was a road box like cover that had flat steel tangs that fit into slots cut in the counter top, add a padlock to the tang. It was very awkward and you had to find an out of the way place to store the monster.

Thanks for the input. I definitely want to avoid a monstrosity that we have to lean against a wall. Space is definitely at a premium. I like the idea of a rolltop but will have to find a way to accommodate at least one flat panel monitor. Maybe a laptop that folds down is a better solution. I'll give that some consideration.

Clay

 

[FMEng]

I'll have to disagree with the others on one aspect and that is that centered is not necessarily the ideal place for the mix position and a bit off center may be better. Being off center can potentially provide a bit better representation of what an average seat hears, including getting a better impression of the effects of panning and relative channel levels in stereo systems for the majority of the audience that is not perfectly equidistant from the speakers on either side.

I should think that comb filtering would be an issue with anything panned to center with a left/right speaker system. Comb filtering would cause variations in frequency response along the centerline between the two speakers and would change with head position. Mixing from a few feet off of center avoids hearing that coloration, really a false representation. This also reveals the fallacy of stereo in a large venue in the first place. If only people in center hear a balanced mix and a nice stereo image, and it is to the detriment of the rest of the house, then what's the point in doing it?

 

[museav]

I should think that comb filtering would be an issue with anything panned to center with a left/right speaker system. Comb filtering would cause variations in frequency response along the centerline between the two speakers and would change with head position. Mixing from a few feet off of center avoids hearing that coloration, really a false representation.

Since the path lengths from the two speakers/arrays would be equal, and thus there would be no relative phase difference between them, you would theoretically get only summation along the centerline of a symmetrical system, one of the causes behind 'power alley' for low frequencies. Otherwise, there is going to be varying combfiltering throughout the listener area based on the relative time arrival/phase and relative level of the two signals, which themselves will both vary throughout a listener area.

This also reveals the fallacy of stereo in a large venue in the first place. If only people in center hear a balanced mix and a nice stereo image, and it is to the detriment of the rest of the house, then what's the point in doing it?

That is very system dependent. In an ideal system every listener, including the person mixing, would hear exactly the same thing. The reality is that is impractical to achieve for any reasonable size listening area and even achieving just equal level throughout a large listener area can be challenging enough. However, how much what is heard varies throughout the listener area and how it varies can differ greatly from one system and/or venue to another.


There may be multiple reasons many riders and tour techs want centered mix positions. One may be the assumption that this is the only place they will hear an 'accurate' mix, which raises the question of how what they hear then translates to the majority of the listener area. Another may be simply wanting a known location, they may not know how every venue and system vary off axis but they know how their mix should sound on the centerline or even on axis of all speakers/arrays. Related to that, they may believe that if they create a good mix at that position then any less desired results off axis are a factor of the system and venue rather than their mix and in the case of house systems thus not their responsibility.

The mix position may also be a bit less important in the future. At a popular music concert I recently attended the BE was using a Midas PRO 6 and Lake processing with wireless control and several times during the show went out into the audience with a wireless tablet to tweak his mix. A tour that has performs using their own mixer but house 'rack and stacks' in various venues is one situation where wireless interfacing can be very beneficial.