Building and rigging the best YouTube set

Vivilama

Member
Joined
May 30, 2020
Location
Japan
After reading all your advice and opinions I am torn between the ETC Source Four LED Series 2 Daylight HD and the Dedo 400D .
For the price of the demo Dedolight I could get two used source four or one with different lenses,scrims etc. What I indeed like about the source four is the flexibility especially in a narrow space. My concern is if the output is enough to give the impression of sunlight. I guess because of the focused beam if placed on a character it should be pretty good?
 

RonHebbard

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2004
Location
Waterdown, ON, CA
After reading all your advice and opinions I am torn between the ETC Source Four LED Series 2 Daylight HD and the Dedo 400D .
For the price of the demo Dedolight I could get two used source four or one with different lenses,scrims etc. What I indeed like about the source four is the flexibility especially in a narrow space. My concern is if the output is enough to give the impression of sunlight. I guess because of the focused beam if placed on a character it should be pretty good?
Without knowing either light, two sources gives you twice the options to experiment with: Two different angles, front light and back light, alternate sides, front and top: You've got the idea.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
 

Vivilama

Member
Joined
May 30, 2020
Location
Japan
Just FYI, you're in a scenery forum here, and a theatre-based site. You might get better lighting answers over on the lighting forum, and I'm sure there are others more dedicated to video lighting.
I really don’t mind theatre based. I understand though that things are different. Nonetheless, once I get to the question on how to rig up stuff wouldn’t this be the right place? So far I got great valuable replies/advice.
Where is that other forum btw?
vito
 

RonHebbard

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2004
Location
Waterdown, ON, CA
I really don’t mind theatre based. I understand though that things are different. Nonetheless, once I get to the question on how to rig up stuff wouldn’t this be the right place? So far I got great valuable replies/advice.
Where is that other forum btw?
vito
Once you've logged into Control Booth Forum, scroll down and you'll see we have approximately a dozen specific sub-forums to choose from; all of the sub-forums are listed on the same basic site.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
 

Vivilama

Member
Joined
May 30, 2020
Location
Japan
Hey folks,

a little update. I did make the windows more medieval as I didn’t like the Japanese style windows. Overall there is still a lot to do especially with the side-walls.
99CBF62D-2DB6-48B1-9B1E-AA5D9508B528.jpeg

9DED7412-79FA-4DB7-96F5-A58070FEFAD1.jpeg

The light is pretty bad and in the photo above I used too much fog. Still wondering how to maintain an even haze level for a longer period of time. I am using a fog machine. Is a gazer better for maintaining?

I have made an overpaint of how I could imagine the mood.
2E6584D8-B612-441E-A4D2-BF2096A24D89.jpeg

I still worry that it’s not clearly a ship. So something must be done with the windows background to suggest a sky and maybe silhouette of another ship. But I have made the acryl sheets frosty in order to avoid seeing the original windows. Maybe some additional props.

Here a Lay-out variation. Although I do like something about it, it doesn’t feel like a ship at all and the room is just too small.
238CAF8E-1D88-46E8-AA37-228AE0DB1D94.jpeg


And a few camera tests
34BCEF8E-D8F2-4E6E-A2AD-C0A00FF3EF0A.png

D14A9DCC-A18E-4D2B-AA12-C1C12E473FC3.jpeg


Today I got my demo Dedolight. Will do some tests with it. Also waiting for the Rosco Gels

Salute,
Vito
 

aeh20s

Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2013
Location
Northern Virgina
The light is pretty bad and in the photo above I used too much fog. Still wondering how to maintain an even haze level for a longer period of time. I am using a fog machine. Is a gazer better for maintaining?
I've been following your progress and this is looking amazing to me. Using a hazer is definitely a better option for maintaining an even haze level. Fog is generally too thick and doesn't run as consistently as haze machines can.
 

Jay Ashworth

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2014
Location
St Pete FL USA
Rewinding to dynamic range for a minute, if those are real windows to outside, and they'll be in your shot, then you have two important considerations:

You'll need to get some window-sized ND gel, probably 6 or 8 stops, and probably put on the outside of the windows, to knock daytime sun down to something you can light against on the inside.

And you -- since you'll certainly have enough light -- have to decide between daylight and tungsten color temp inside the room.

You lose a lot less light correcting to tungsten -- which is actually a bug here; you *want* to lose light -- but if your interior lighting ends up being tungsten, then those framed outdoor gels will need to be ND plus CTO, to get you down from 6000-8000K to about 3800K.

And you'll probably want to adjust color temp manuall -- if your camera permits -- with a good color monitor, and probably a color-checker chart, for reference.

[ Why yes, I've done TV on and off for 30 years, why do you ask? :) ]
 

Vivilama

Member
Joined
May 30, 2020
Location
Japan
I've been following your progress and this is looking amazing to me. Using a hazer is definitely a better option for maintaining an even haze level. Fog is generally too thick and doesn't run as consistently as haze machines can.
Th
Rewinding to dynamic range for a minute, if those are real windows to outside, and they'll be in your shot, then you have two important considerations:

You'll need to get some window-sized ND gel, probably 6 or 8 stops, and probably put on the outside of the windows, to knock daytime sun down to something you can light against on the inside.

And you -- since you'll certainly have enough light -- have to decide between daylight and tungsten color temp inside the room.

You lose a lot less light correcting to tungsten -- which is actually a bug here; you *want* to lose light -- but if your interior lighting ends up being tungsten, then those framed outdoor gels will need to be ND plus CTO, to get you down from 6000-8000K to about 3800K.

And you'll probably want to adjust color temp manuall -- if your camera permits -- with a good color monitor, and probably a color-checker chart, for reference.

[ Why yes, I've done TV on and off for 30 years, why do you ask? :) ]
Wow this is getting very interesting for me now. Thanks so much.
As I am totally new to real lighting, I am still confused ( probably over complicating things) about this whole matching temperature topic. I have read it a hundred times and although I understand I should avoid mixing different light types such as halogen and so on due to some lights having different color shifts and it being a torture alterin grading(?).

Now suppose I have a candle light ( tungsten) on my desk and daylight coming from the windows, what is the reason I would want to make my daylight a tungsten ( or the 3800k) ?

What exaclty do you mean by “I want to lose light?”

In the setup you describe I would set my camera to 3800k, correct?

speaking of the windows, the angled ones are acryl sheets in front of real windows.
If I would shoot only a night I wouldn’t need those window gels, correct?
Also I painted the Acryls a little bit green to suggest that some Alge been grown onto it. Was that a bad idea?

Vito
 

macsound

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2018
Location
San Francisco, CA
Color temperature in cameras is most easily described like this.
Set the camera to 5600k and take a photo with natural light, the photo will look natural.
Set the camera to 2800k and take a photo with natural light, the photo will look blue.
Set the camera to 10000k and take a photo with natural light, the photo will look orange.

So if you have a candle on the table that you want to look warm and candle color, your other lighting needs to be a higher color temperature, say 5600k and set your camera at 5600k.
If you want your candle to have the same color temperature as the lighting in the room, your other lighting needs to be a lower color temperature, say 2800k and set your camera to 2800k.

So it's not about being bad mixing tungsten and sunlight and HMI, it's just that you have to realize your camera needs to be set to a single color temperature and you have to decide what that is.
If you set your camera for tungsten light, a high color temperature HMI or LED fixture will appear blue on film. If that's what you're looking for, great. If not, well, you need to match your color temperatures.

In your test image with the pirate looking guy, the sunlight appears cool compared to the warm incandescent desk lamp. Assuming that's your goal, you need to match your lighting color temperatures to that in your test.


On the front of your set, it looks great! Very good build and attention to detail. I don't think anything will make it seem like a ship except props. Get a compass and some nautical looking charts or barometers to hang on the wall. Props like you have on the desk, help make it looked lived in. Just be careful to not use props that wouldn't make it through a rough ocean voyage because they're too fragile or slide easily.
 

MarshallPope

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 10, 2009
Location
Auburn, New York
Something else you may want to think about if you're struggling to get it to feel more ship-y would be water reflections off of the ocean.

Perhaps some watery blue lights shining up from behind/below the window would be useful, or maybe even something with a bit of motion.
 

Vivilama

Member
Joined
May 30, 2020
Location
Japan
Color temperature in cameras is most easily described like this.
Set the camera to 5600k and take a photo with natural light, the photo will look natural.
Set the camera to 2800k and take a photo with natural light, the photo will look blue.
Set the camera to 10000k and take a photo with natural light, the photo will look orange.

So if you have a candle on the table that you want to look warm and candle color, your other lighting needs to be a higher color temperature, say 5600k and set your camera at 5600k.
If you want your candle to have the same color temperature as the lighting in the room, your other lighting needs to be a lower color temperature, say 2800k and set your camera to 2800k.

So it's not about being bad mixing tungsten and sunlight and HMI, it's just that you have to realize your camera needs to be set to a single color temperature and you have to decide what that is.
If you set your camera for tungsten light, a high color temperature HMI or LED fixture will appear blue on film. If that's what you're looking for, great. If not, well, you need to match your color temperatures.

In your test image with the pirate looking guy, the sunlight appears cool compared to the warm incandescent desk lamp. Assuming that's your goal, you need to match your lighting color temperatures to that in your test.


On the front of your set, it looks great! Very good build and attention to detail. I don't think anything will make it seem like a ship except props. Get a compass and some nautical looking charts or barometers to hang on the wall. Props like you have on the desk, help make it looked lived in. Just be careful to not use props that wouldn't make it through a rough ocean voyage because they're too fragile or slide easily.
thanks a bunch! This forum is pure gold :)
 

Vivilama

Member
Joined
May 30, 2020
Location
Japan
Something else you may want to think about if you're struggling to get it to feel more ship-y would be water reflections off of the ocean.

Perhaps some watery blue lights shining up from behind/below the window would be useful, or maybe even something with a bit of motion.
i am thinking how to do it. I once had the idea of using my old video projector but quickly discarded the idea :)
 

Vivilama

Member
Joined
May 30, 2020
Location
Japan
Today I tried the Dedolight 400D ( daylight) . I put it outside and got a satisfying result!
16FCEC34-7975-414D-8DB2-B3B4EF6919A8.png
for this test I did set my camera to 10000k ( liked the warmth of the tungsten desklamp
The dedo400 is 6000k. Is that the reason why the window illumination turns greenish? Or is it indeed the slight green stains I added to the windows? 🤪
And here an overpaint with the background extended.
74CA734D-482D-429C-B47E-6DEBCB070727.jpeg

I am liking the Dedolight but still unsure if I should get two Aputure 300ii for the same price.
The D400 has 2500lux @5m (flood) whereas the 300ii only has 1200lux ( with fresnel 1900) . In Spot Position its 45000lux for the 400D and 3500lux for the 300ii but I would need an optional fresnel to do spot.
So I am wondering whether two 300ii, ( combined 2400lux) would be the better choice. Of course leaving aside the CRI which in my case ( YouTube) won’t be noticeable.

Although I have no experience and can only compare to cheap LEDs I have never seen a light that apears so clean and even like the D400.
Wonder if the Apurture comes close.

cheers,

vito
 

DrewE

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2019
Location
Vermont
In terms of the light output, since you have one of the lights you're thinking about at your disposal presently, run some test footage and see what sort of camera settings you're getting. Half the luminous flux would correspond to a one stop difference in the required camera settings--either halving the shutter speed, or opening the diaphragm up a stop, or doubling the ISO value used (or some combination of such things). If, for instance, you find that you already have to stop down the lens a lot and you'd prefer to have less depth of field, then less light would hardly be a disadvantage. On the other hand, if your lens diaphragm is already fully open and the shutter speed down around the frame rate and the ISO is high (leading to noisy video), more light would definitely be advantageous.

Needless to say, you can dim lights if they emit too much at full brightness. It's also possible to put an ND filter on the camera to cut down on excess light. Also more lights does mean more flexability in arranging and focusing them, and more time and effort required for that very reason.