Cam Turn Arounds

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Inspired by http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting/18966-suicide-cable.html I would like to know the opinions of people on CB about this cable adapter...

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They are most often seen in green and white but I have seen them in blue, red, and black.
 

soundman

Well-Known Member
Never leave the shop without one pair (green, white) per service needed each way.

Until all company switches and gear follow the same standard they are a necessity. If the house is G+N reversed but your racks are not you need to do something.
 

tyler.martin

Active Member
or more than one set... The building i worked in during the olympics had 3 different panels from the same supplier and 2 of the 3 were G/N Reversed. Not to mention that my dimmer rack was different then the video guys distro.

A definite neccessity to any show in any venue...
 

Grog12

CBMod
CB Mods
Premium Member
Never leave the shop without one pair (green, white) per service needed each way.

Until all company switches and gear follow the same standard they are a necessity. If the house is G+N reversed but your racks are not you need to do something.


Agreed, while I'm not a huge fan of "suicide cables" cam turnarounds are a necessity for the time being.
 

bishopthomas

Well-Known Member
I'm not sure what this has to do with the suicide cable thread, or what the purpose of posting it is. I know you (Kyle) know what they are for and that they are essential, so are you trying to make a point here?

Hey, what do you guys think about female/female XLR adapters? What are your thoughts on 1/4" instrument cables? :mrgreen:
 

DaveySimps

CBMod
CB Mods
Premium Member
I have two sets of white and green for my main stage. We have reverse G/N so I stock them to have if someone's needs them to tie into our disconnects. I do a fair bit of freelance audio work as well. Every company I work for carries a full set of each gender in the work trunk on every gig. They are a necessity.

~Dave
 

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I'm not sure what this has to do with the suicide cable thread, or what the purpose of posting it is. I know you (Kyle) know what they are for and that they are essential, so are you trying to make a point here?

It came up in the thread so I wanted to move it out into another thread. Just trying to play the devils advocate a bit and see what makes these any different from a male to male any other type of power carrying cable.
 

LightStud

Active Member

bishopthomas

Well-Known Member
Total frivolity provided one is using (non-banded) single conductor feeder and EVERY rack has pass-thru's. If not, it's the house's problem.:twisted:

Saying "it's the house's problem" won't actually get anything accomplished. They'll say, "you want power from us, it's YOUR problem." And then you'll be scrambling for turn arounds, taking apart your taped cable, or the show will be an acoustic set. Leaving your adapters at the shop would be like leaving your dimmer rack behind.
 

bishopthomas

Well-Known Member
It came up in the thread so I wanted to move it out into another thread. Just trying to play the devils advocate a bit and see what makes these any different from a male to male any other type of power carrying cable.

The difference is that there's no set standard in Camlok neutral/ground connectors. If I someone pointed me to a Cam panel for power and it had male hots I would be worried. But if there were male neutral/ground Cams then I would just pull out my turnarounds.

Some people like to have the safety of not ever being able to swap the hot and neutral, especially if different people will be making the connection (don't start with the "only qualified people" crap, it happens). I tend to be in that camp, so if you don't agree then one of us better have turnarounds if we're interfacing our gear.
 

venuetech

Well-Known Member
Departed Member
It came up in the thread so I wanted to move it out into another thread. Just trying to play the devils advocate a bit and see what makes these any different from a male to male any other type of power carrying cable.

the power switch is usually off when working with these
the male is not as exposed as a Edison male plug or a male twist lock
it is a single conductor so you cannot casually touch multiple conductors with one hand
this type of connector is not normally used by inexperienced persons
 
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derekleffew

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The difference is that there's no set standard in Camlok neutral/ground connectors. ...
An issue that is, sadly, not addressed in ESTA's BSR E1.18-1: Standard For The Selection, Installation, And Use Of Single-Conductor Portable Power Feeder Cable Systems For Use At 600 Volts Nominal Or Less For The Distribution Of Electrical Energy In The Entertainment And Live-Event Industries.

Perhaps there's still time? Mr. Terry?
 

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An issue that is, sadly, not addressed in ESTA's BSR E1.18-1: Standard For The Selection, Installation, And Use Of Single-Conductor Portable Power Feeder Cable Systems For Use At 600 Volts Nominal Or Less For The Distribution Of Electrical Energy In The Entertainment And Live-Event Industries.

Perhaps there's still time? Mr. Terry?

Its not even standard within a manufacture. Several years ago we bought 2 ETC 24 packs that were all male in, the next year we bought two 12 pack that were swapped.
 

JD

Well-Known Member
Don't leave home without them. (at least the white and green) Half the venues are male, half are female (on N & G) so maybe in 10 years I won't need them, but for now.....
 

Dionysus

Well-Known Member
As stated earlier I am VERY against the 'suicide cable' but I am all for cam turnarounds. I keep a set myself.
Sometimes one is backwards, as stated above, or yada-yada-yada. And in reality most of the time around here there is a disconnect switch without cam receptacles so an electrician is needed to tie-in anyways. The cable is run, connected to the other end... Everything is checked, THEN the fuses are installed, switch closed and thrown closed.

The contacts for cams are reasonably recessed for both male AND female, and it is not a single connector anyways. Separate cable or 'wire' for each.

Cams should only energized after all connections are made. Most people are scared of them so they don't touch them, they are kept secure AND the people working with them know better than to touch them energized.

Personally I lock-out the switch until everything is checked and ready for power. So it's safe. Plus the inspector is generally okay with it, which makes me happy.
 

zuixro

Active Member
the power switch is usually off when working with these
the male is not as exposed as a Edison male plug or a male twist lock
it is a single conductor so you cannot casually touch multiple conductors with one hand
this type of connector is not normally used by inexperienced persons

Those were the points that I was going to make.

As for whoever said that you could just switch the ends around, all the feeder that I have seen has been, for lack of a better word, tangled. Not a rats nest, but enough that it would be very inconvenient (combined with the weight of it) to untangle it.

I really don't see how either side of a cam is safer. I could get my thumb inside the female end, or I could touch the male end.
 

soundman

Well-Known Member
If you have banded feeder cables unbanding them wont solve the problem of the venue being N + G reversed. It just moves the issue to the other end.

FWIW I know what my package has and can prep it accordingly. I don't know what every builder has so any adapters go between the company switch and my feeder. That way I never have to flip anything in my hods.
 

STEVETERRY

Well-Known Member
An issue that is, sadly, not addressed in ESTA's BSR E1.18-1: Standard For The Selection, Installation, And Use Of Single-Conductor Portable Power Feeder Cable Systems For Use At 600 Volts Nominal Or Less For The Distribution Of Electrical Energy In The Entertainment And Live-Event Industries.

Perhaps there's still time? Mr. Terry?

Unlikely, as no public comments have been received on this issue to date. There will be other public reviews before E1.18-1 becomes a standard, though.

When I worked for a major rental company in the US, I had trouble with this particular standardization issue across branches, let alone companies. I don't think it is likely that one sex of neutral or ground will be standardized, as there is large cost to change, and little safety or interoperability benefit. That's why there are E1016 turnarounds!

ST
 

mstaylor

Well-Known Member
Departed Member
I will add to the necessity crowd. I made sure our's were reversed when we installed permament cams. We both a full set of turn arounds as well as a full set of T's. The other thing we have is a set of caps and plugs to close off any unused cables. Even when not in use we keep the house stuff capped.
 

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