Vintage Lighting Carbon Arc carbons

JD

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Jan 1, 2005
Location
North Wales PA
That's a hard one.
What you need are 7mm 12 inch Suprex carbons for the front (Positive DC) and 6mm 9 inch Orotip carbons for the rear (Negative DC.) (Manual- http://www.velmadinkley.com/witness/temp/super_trouper.pdf )
I did a fast Google, but did not find any, although boxes do show up on Ebay.
There is at least one company that caters to people keeping the old projectors going and they sell a wide line of carbons, but I have lost the link. If I find it, I will add it to this post.
In the meantime, search around this site, there are many threads about Supers, and the link might be in one of them.

EDIT:
Found it!
Cinema Carbons - AC DC Carbon Arcs - color films
more:
http://www.cssinc.com/store/page26.html
 
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ship

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Illinois
I have a stack of like 1/4" ones and know where to get more. Kind of a pain in having to for a restoration fabricate down sizing bushings for mounting them. Don't expect they last as long.

Yea... no idea of where to get the proper sized ones thse days.
 

PeteEngel

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Nov 5, 2009
Location
Las Vegas
Just got off the phone with the TD of a facility I used to run Carbon Super Troupers years ago (the fixtures are long gone). The last time he had to get Carbons, all of the theatrical suppliers had stopped offering them. He took the size info off the old boxes and called a welding supply house. The welding supply house contacted Union Carbide (the manufacturer of the carbons) and were able to get them. If you have the old boxes, you should be able to find a SKU # or something and source these through a large welding supply house or go directly to Union Carbide.

Good luck.
 

JD

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North Wales PA
Unfortunately, Union Carbide is no more. What is left of them is now a subsidiary of The Dow Chemical Company. I don't think they are in the arc carbon business. (short of blast furnaces.) Here's the thing- There are many different types of carbons. The DC Suprex carbon used for the Super Trouper were hollowed out and filled with a softer center. This is why it formed a rim crater, which is what was focused on for the stage projection.
You want to use carbons that were designed for cinema projection. The links in my first post were for that type. Welding carbons won't work too well in the projection application.
 

coldnorth57

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Jun 30, 2008
Location
Prince George BC Canada
they still use Carbon rods for metal work they may not come from Union Carbide ...but some one maked carbon rods and they come in many differnt sizes from just over 1/8 of an inch in diamitor to flat 1 inch by 1/8
 

PeteEngel

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Las Vegas
Union Carbide a Wholly Owned Subsidiary of Dow. The Carbons are still made, and if not by Union Carbide, then by someone else. I did a quick search and came up with at least 3 companies in India that make Cinema Carbons. My buddy was able to find the the correct carbons through a welding supply house. I wasn't suggesting one use welding rods. Proper tool for the proper job. Also, not sure what they cost, but trying to source them through a welding supply house might cost less than a specialty cinema shop. Let us know.
 

ship

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Unfortunately, Union Carbide is no more. What is left of them is now a subsidiary of The Dow Chemical Company. I don't think they are in the arc carbon business. (short of blast furnaces.) Here's the thing- There are many different types of carbons. The DC Suprex carbon used for the Super Trouper were hollowed out and filled with a softer center. This is why it formed a rim crater, which is what was focused on for the stage projection.
You want to use carbons that were designed for cinema projection. The links in my first post were for that type. Welding carbons won't work too well in the projection application.

Very interesting and informitive info, thanks in concepts I have never thought of. Was more thinking that a thicker carbon would last longer.

Know in my last carbon arc restoration I also with it got a good stack of 1/4" carbon rods specifically for it - though some seemed a bit long for fitting in the 1911 fixture. Know also that there was basically bronze spacers available that were split in half and would fit the 1/4" rods than. Don't know for sure in I only got half of one with my fixture and had to make the rest in use. Not remembering exact parts, but think of something like McMaster Carr 6338k312 for a starting reference point n cut in half to retain the 1/4" rods.

For me the fixture was ready to go in all ways working, but the "reostat" as they called it back than / ballast was toast in dual coil 14ga wire wrapped about porcelain fittings had lots of breaks in it. Posibly because two wires run in parallel were not parallel enough in one conductor carrying more load than the other. Simply impossible to figure out exact length in parallel of wire in reproduction of what was done for the resistor. One of only two fixtures I have that will never work again.

Thus, I have a small stack of 1/4" rods that were for a carbon arc fixture if wanted, but I don't recommend asking for them in needing to make an adaptor assembly and they probably won't last as long. Plus once gone from me or the theater I got them from... that's it perhaps for something that might work.

Good reason instead to upgrade to a more modern followspot. Highly recommend Lycian over Strong or Rober J. by way of bench focus concepts amongst other things for a good xenon or other lamped fixture.
 

PeteEngel

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Las Vegas
"Good reason instead to upgrade to a more modern followspot. Highly recommend Lycian over Strong or Rober J. by way of bench focus concepts amongst other things for a good xenon or other lamped fixture. "

Not sure why you would choose Lycian over RJ for bench focusing, the RJ followspots do not require any lamp optimization at all (except maybe one or two of the older models...). But I guess it is personal preference.
 

ship

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"Good reason instead to upgrade to a more modern followspot. Highly recommend Lycian over Strong or Rober J. by way of bench focus concepts amongst other things for a good xenon or other lamped fixture. "

Not sure why you would choose Lycian over RJ for bench focusing, the RJ followspots do not require any lamp optimization at all (except maybe one or two of the older models...). But I guess it is personal preference.
Metric parts, moving them without casters to the base and will be more fragile in parts. RJ in use also and popular and it all depends on comparing one to another in specific location to be used on a 1:1 basis. Dependand on the spot overall, but often many brands of lamp for the other two brands can be used, only Philips for the RJ version.

Nope, didn't bench focus the RJ yet in assuming, but did have to help carry instead of wheel them so as to prep. Good point though in something I assumed and am appairently incorrect about. Thanks in I will look into the new spots further in actually learning them, as opposed to Lycian easy, Strong normally hard assumption overall. And for the correction.
 

PeteEngel

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The lamp manufacturer is dependent upon fixture type. Not just Philips. Also, RJ has a stand that uses wheels, though our fixtures are much less heavy than others so carrying isn't usually an issue. Feel free to give us a call if you have any questions about our units.

Pete
RJUSA
 

ship

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The lamp manufacturer is dependent upon fixture type. Not just Philips. Also, RJ has a stand that uses wheels, though our fixtures are much less heavy than others so carrying isn't usually an issue. Feel free to give us a call if you have any questions about our units.

Pete
RJUSA
Very popular light and probably wishing with wheels in stock-thanks for the info in potentially upgrading to casters thanks for the info.

Other makers of the say MSR 1800DE, 1159 Victor lamp? Would be curious in not as bad in price as an M-2 spotlight lamp but Philips lamps have really packaging on their lamps so the boxes don't hold up as per spares in storage or drop test and or just plain mold collecting if it gets wet. At times price of lamp if when you need it as a spare can be as important as even spending a few dollars more so it gets to a show safely in a box that doesn't self open or crush easily. That much less survives a drop test. Only good point about this Philips lamp is that it's one of their few smaller lamp boxes in normally ovesized if not huge.

Very interested in other brand options. (Granted I'm still a Lycian fan over Strong for bench focus, and have not tinkered wth the RJ other than seeing it - that's a good thing if as a concept if not called in on a fixture type to work on it.)
 

PeteEngel

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Philips is the only lamp manufacturer that makes the 1800W/DE lamp that is used in the Victor/Flo at this point. The GT1000 stand can accept wheels. I have yet to find a followspot as easy to access for maintenance than a RJ. Have you used the Victor followspot or other RJ gear?

taking my RJ hat off now.
 

ship

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Sory in evolving and not taking it off line. Still I have 1/4" carbons if wanted. And the above down size option concept is useful.

The carbon arc spotlight that came with the extra rods will never be used again - it's "reostat"/ballast has a toast double wound 14ga wire winding that is just too shot and broken to even attempt to reproduce at least on my level. Should ETC want to borrow and with their scientists fix it or me, might be able to work something out on me fixing stuff for them on my level, but until than... it won't work again.

RJ part of the thread also my fault, sorry in that we I believe until now were searching for 1/2" dia. carbon arc rods for some fixtures I think..

Of interest at least in the carbon arc I got these rods from, a photo of the 1903 Iriquois Fire shows the PC I have in collection on the same stand as the Olivalitte that theoretically caused the fire. Both fixtures that caused this very important historical event are in the Chicago Historical Society Museum -very much on my to visit list.
 

gordonmcleod

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Dec 18, 2008
Location
canada
Marble in Japan still make a range of carbon arc carbons the only thing is the Suprex7mm is only made in 14" not 12" long but that is not a problem
Seagull in China makes carbons as do two companies in India
Lorraine (france) Morganite (england) Ringsdorf Diamond (germany) National (union carbide) are all out of that market
Independent Theatre Supply in Edmonton still has a large stock and I believe Jack Roe USA has a large stock of marble (they are the importer)
 

music_hic

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Mar 29, 2016
Location
Fort Stockton TX
I volunteer for a once a year production that takes place after dark, at a swimming pool. We are still using 3 strong carbon arc spots on our towers, they are not Supper Troupers but smaller ( and perhaps older) The first problem is it is getting harder and harder to find good carbons for these lights (the carbons we have left are 6mm X 180mm), so any help there would be great! The other problem is we are down to our last 3 working carbon arcs, as we have robbed the others to keep them up and running. We are a nonprofit so our lighting budget is small. Any help with sourcing parts and carbons would vary helpful. Thanks!!
 

derekleffew

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