careers in lighting

Going back to the beginning of the post by raeraeiam, BA or BFA?

I think it depends what you plan to do after school. If you want to teach you'll need a MFA so it won't matter if you have a ba or bfa. Ultimately, employers only look at your most recent degree- no matter what field you're in. My wife has 3 bachelors and 2 masters. But employers only care about the PhD [she's a scientist]. No phd in tech theatre (that I know of) but if you want to design right out of undergrad- go bfa. You'll need the extra art classes for sure!

And someone said it in an earlier posting; in our field it's all about NETWORKING! Do a good job and get an "A" in sandbox, you'll succeed.
 
That is definetly what I'm doing - im actually going to see one this Friday.
basically my major concern is BA vs BFA. to me, it seems more logical to have a BA, because coming out of college with only one option seems scary - but then again, i've heard numerous times that there's plenty of work in this field, so maybe that wouldn't be such a bad thing..?

I'm currently in a BA program in NY. My professors keep telling us of the numorus opportunities that we'll have upon graduation, in or outside theatre. One of out upcoming homework assignments is to create a list of all jobs you can get with a technical theatre degree; I showed my professor a list of 75 and he laughed at me saying that i hadn't even begun to search yet. So the jobs are really endless. And I believe several others in this thread have said the same.
 
Valid arguement but opposing it is that schools that have a larger class size has more classes in theater and tech so as to learn more from. Plus at some point there is a certain limitation to smaller schools by way of someone to go to in learning when now in charged. My opinion... medium sized school, one not so large you have to fight to get any classes, but one not so small that as a freshmen or sophmore you wind up the Master Carpenter and for all intensive purposes TD for a season or even show. This even as a Junior that unless really special, you wind up with any form of even studio theater show you are designing that's realized or real position. Perhaps a assistant design or two Junior year but only after considering the amount of students you share classes with and fitting all those in their last two years at school to some designer or assistant designer slot should if the season is large enough you get your chance. This also only if good enough to be trusted beyond the other designers you are in compitition with.

Rough figure for me would be to go to a medium sized school for undergraduate work, than if going for a Master's degree, head for the top huge schools such as Yale or UofI amongst lots of others. And also, if at all possible amongst other studies, attempt to get your teaching degree if you have time. Won't hurt, it would only help open up career possibilities for your future in the long run. I in many ways am hampered by way of a lack of teaching degree such as I would recommend for others.

Back in high school I was part of a drafting program that was rated one of the top ten in the state. Was even doing Auto Cadd on an Apple IIE that didnt' yet have a mouse. It was all X/Y/Z polar coordinants to which you typed into a DOS file so as to see your results of mis-aligned lines at times when you converted the typed in commands to a line drawing that was on a seperate screen. Anyway, it was a class of like six serious students by the fourth year of high school. We were graded by way of like a 9.5 ratio and a 9.5 was a death grade that would lower ones' standing in the class. For any bullet holes (holes made by a compass) in the drafting paper, it was 1/10th of a point. That serious of a class and it was all about that scholarship to UofI Chicago for Architecture. I was of the top two students. Could have been an arcitect... than I discovered the theater as a career. About 1/4 of the way thru senior year at highschool "Architecture" class that was a year long class, my grades started dropping from the top two to bottom in that I was now to become a stage hand and "world famous designer" as a career instead of architect - or at leat "the grumpy old man of the theater" I'm still working on.

Importance of me mentioning this is that later in college there was like four "top designers" in my graduating class at school, and a few underclassmen. That similar by way of one bullet hole in the drafting paper loss of a tenth of a point is good for one's drive and education. We were terrible towards each other in critiquing each other's designs - especially mine given I normally had more time than the others who still had to fill in Practicum credits. Still in challenging each other and just the drive to be the top student, there beyond teachers, was peers - not just other tech people but peers that were all just as driven to design shows as I who were striving in class to end up with the main stage design, much less career and no doubt contacts to understudy under a pro-designer. It was in the end a similar atmosphere of amongst those that survived four years of intense study and work, we are all that's left and now in with the graduate students by way of advanced design classes. We were needed by them to bulk up the often at best ten person class sufficient that it became a class, we needed them so as to learn and further discuss and debate further concepts in design beyond the areas of a stage. For me at least, that compitition, limited program but one that's large enough worked well.

For me in my first college a little school, yea I did a lot of shows and got to do stuff by way of how I wanted - actally had actors on their knees in approaching me when they came to tell me that they forgot to wash their paint brushes in an over the weekend painting session. Constantly fought the concept of "the show must go on" verses the eventual "the show must go on, only now without you" in me eventually saving too many shows and not concentrating upon studies enough. Got kicked out of that school. And yea, my advisor - the theater's director would stand up for me.. yep natta.

This all as opposed to a fairly medium sized school, only a few MFA theater people in the tech program sufficient to equate with more classes in theater tech we shared with them, but much less design work. In fact, other than a few classroom sized designs, I never at any point designed for the main stage or even the studio space at the school in a realized design. Sure I assistant designed, and my wagon for "Sweeney Todd" I designed and built I expect is still in existance and often rented, but I never designed a show there all by myself. This granted that amongst a good number of designers, by the time I hit my final year I was already hooked up with a theater of five in Chicago and spending most of my time 120 miles away in getting "Elephant in a Shoebox" awards or "Top Ten Desiners to Watch in the Coming Years" awards by way of the Chicago as opposed to local school papers. (Never got a "Jeff" award for design but did work on some "Jeff" nominated productions as a designer. Thus it was probably by way of the school thought that my Senior year design slot was safe to give to someone else and it in reality was fair enough.

These while not some official award was still a big thing for me at the time - dates fuzzy if in college for both or right after, but out all the designers in the Chicago area, I was specificacally noted for my work above and beyond. I was all primed and set, to set the world on fire. Had to make the choice at some point and I gave up design for food on the table as opposed to waiting to be discovered in a big way. Luckily it was a design/production major and as a part of it, I had to also as it were minor in a secondary field of design or I will have been working elsewhere by now. For me it was set design with carpentry I did. Than I got tired of carrying plywood to the saw and knowing more about how a garage or shed is constructed than the designers I was working for and I left the field and went for my secondary study lighing.

(This was a big career move for me no less I'm sure than if I had to leave theater and find and office job - me doing what goes spark in the night I avoided while at the smaller school. Such lighting gear really did go spark at the smaller school - nobody knew enough about lights to make it safe, much less were sufficient to train/teach me to where I am today. They could have tought me a PC verses Fresnel, verses Leko, but the Director of theater was the one that made it go spark in the night by way of touching both sprinkler pipe and fixture while on a ladder in focus. I was helping at the light board and my own light board did a spark in a way I have no clue about that didn't settle me well in any way with lighting. Best I will have come out with at that school was much what I took to the school with me - highschool education in carpentry. No classes where by the teacher was instructing in how to align a table saw so as to make foam molding out of a sheet of extruded polystyrine - heck at the old place I with it's education will have been challenged to know the difference to know it verses expanded polystyrine. Not to say that all small schools have a similar very basic program but it's a very large difference for me in what I learned in class at one place verses what I was teaching at another. Sure top of the world and it's hard to give up, but you are there to learn.)

No, not lighting design after leaving my career for some un-known type of tech, I also studied to some extent but not as much but which came in handy, but in this case as it were almost my fourth field of study right above costume design - lighting tech and now lighting fabrication. I was almost as qualified to design costumes at the start as I was to engineer three phase 96way distribution systems that I now do as part of my living. (Important if designer professionally "The Business of Theatrical Design." Such a book was not out when I was going that direction and finances were in part the reason I for all intensive purposes gave it up.) Having time without having to do shows to read such a book is important, this much less while not doing shows every night it might seem and never getting caught up between productions so as to take say a business class on the side will do you much better than having the time to sit on the hooks so as to listen to the latest gossep about who is doing who or estimates upon what's the best form of soda to keep one awake.

I miss design in some ways but in the wiring and lamp choice for others aspect of it I now do I still get much a chance to do design work - that's the fixture I made from scratch Peter Gabrial is now holding type of stuff. None the less, while I miss real design work and wish I had more time for designing shows - below is a note on the percentage chance that you will become a designer in reality verses a tech person - hopefully one that's going to retire from doing tech as opposed to say doing realistate or something else, but still it's a good field to study as long as you study at least two design parts and lots of tech to cover your bases.

For me at least while I didn't get to design on the main stage, I still in class got credit for the pro-work as part of "Professional Practice in Design", and had a teacher/designer supervisor that was helping me design such shows in helping me learn and solve problems in design. It kind of takes it a bit beyond my earlier college years where for tech - due to an outstanding high school training in tech, I right away was able to take over for the basics trained small school tech program and get locked into just building stuff in a high school similar way. No real education, I brought with me what I knew and didn't learn much at the small school. I was useful to them by way of getting stuff done.

In the real college, I didn't do more than one or two shows for the school a year. Lots of time to study for class and put 14 hours per page into my drafting in ink. Mastered that technique and beyond that was able to study design for my shows by way of spending like a month on design - just it's design for say a class project that would never be realized. Want to do a three level jack knife set for "West Side Story", I had time to not only study all about the play but also read into structural engineering of steel and even into how corrugated steel decking is done. At the time I designed that set, I actually understood the concepts behind how to do courriguated steel decking and could even say how much such a three level jack knife platform would weigh.

As opposed to having to do shows (yes I would have to see the school shows, and others, than type up a review and papers so as to discuss in class,) While not always working on productions, I had time to study and study where ever my interest took me. This much less refine and refine my designes to the extent that I at times thought they were good.

This granted that by the time I got to the school, I didn't have any real hours left in "theater practicum" by way of number of productions already worked at the smaller school. Had to work like one show per year, and another for any number of basics classes thus about two shows out of like six or more. Many in my classes that had not so many shows under the belt already, much less so many years already in college did have to work lots of shows thus my experience was different.

Still... the concept that in doing theater - especially design, that you don't have to work even half the shows of a season so as to get more time to study and refine your designs, get more than two theater classes per semester in tech all thru your education, and there is lots of students and thus better qualified teachers to teach, to me says a lot. At my old smaller school, there was two teachers. Both had more or less a basics in theater education. At the medium sized school, there was three or four teachers just for tech and lots of others in the program.

For me at least that's the difference. Sure, you won't get all the classes you want always when you want them. Some classes you might miss out on. Say you miss out on one class and never get a chance to take say a class specific like say metals - in only being offered every three years. Miss it say twice in your four or more years at school. Yep, that's a shame you missed such a class. Was it even offered in the smaller school, much less what other classes were offered that you did get into that the smaller school also did not offer.

Just some thoughts on my part in not saying that a huge school is correct for everyone, or even that a small school might not be ideal, or that the medium sized one was perfect. Just some concepts to throw out. Entire semester in say scenic painting, another say in props building etc.

Also as with all schools, one school for one person's needs won't always or perhaps ever be the same school or the right school for another person - have to get lucky and or interview many schools.

Than if attempting to be a designer... make sure that you do realize reality. Sure, I wanted to set the world on fire and become the next world famous designer. Could do it too, even at one point did start making money from design professionally. Gotta remember that as with acting, becoming a designer sufficent enough to make a living off design is kind of a 1:100 type of thing at best. Have fall back plans and loves so that if it doesn't work out, you have some other training and loves. Try to, but don't base your world upon setting the world on fire. Most likely you won't, and by the time you are 40 you will either be or not be one of the 10% left I would say are still even doing theater and or live entertainment. Consider all the tech people out there around the country and world with your asperations, than send them all thru a funnel that terminates in retirement. That's reality. Study hard and practice.

For me at leat once I got to a larger school, worked well was the time to really in depth study where ever my interests in learning stuff took me and not having to devote hours upon hours in production work. Lots less time behind the light board - but sufficient to learn it, more time just sitting down and reading entire books - lots of books on all sorts of things. Production experience after college is one thing in not being a "deer in the headlights" once you get on a real stage.

On the other hand beyond the basics, really understanding that some say two sets of 1/2" thick x 2" wide aluminum bar isn't going to have magical qualities to it in supporting three six bar S-4 PAR light fixtures (18 lights plus cable and the bars/bolts etc) with the aluminum on the flat. This supported by a single U-Bolt per aluminum support for two bars at a 45 degree angle and a one in the center of two clamps mounted 4" apart on a 18" bar. Clamps on center are 4" apart, outer bars are at least 15" apart - that aluminum bar if on the flat is going to bend. This much less two U-Bolts won't be sufficient to retain a lamp bar at a 45 degree angle to gravity.

Such is engineering done by way of either lots of experience - years of it or lots of study and a good understanding of base engineering along with experience. Say in doing a 9-Light Mole light cantilievered off a truss, what's the maximum length a 1.1/2" water pipe can span before it starts to sag/bend the pipe? That's a lot of time in school studying engineering of such things, than time in the field, deckades in the field or as happened... a pipe that bent given some magical expectation and concept for design that was no longer allowed in the building without a certified engineer signing off on it - that cost money. The designer had a basics in how achieve what he wished, but didn't spend the time learning his trade sufficient that his specified - that's sufficient met with realty. The cantiliever pipes bent and the IA would not allow this gear back into the building until someone that knew what he was doing wrote off on it. Can't blame them - it bent a 1.1/2" Sch. 40 pipe.

If of any help, can't stress it enough, all you need to know is not just in production, it's often also supplemented in books studied already written by those who re-invented the wheel years before you. Study the books and you are a leg ahead as intended. Don't study enough by way of constantly working shows and getting this than that show up and running and you learn some solutions to problems but don't learn enough or as much.

As a designer, there is lots of time that should be spent just taking your design where ever it takes you that cannot be done if also working on shows. "Itallian American Reconcilliation" designed (non-realized) that play for class at one point. Took me amongst other places to sitting in the library and listening to a LP of "Turnadot" while reading some text my research into design also lead me. Always avoided reviews on design and specific to that design textes so that my own design would take me where I or the director was headed. Didn't want to know, in design I wanted to with each show re-invent the wheel. Still it did leave me time for a also not realized three level set of that "West Side Story" design to learn about stuff like the courrigated steel. Had questions in how could it be that strong and basic engineering of it questions. Lots of time to learn about answering such questions while at the same time and even if for class, refine my design sufficient that it could have feasibly have been done - given it didn't fall thru the stage deck.

Sometimes earlier designs in getting a feel for stuff can and should be out landish - once didn't have enough room for a grand piano in storing it off stage between scenes. "Fine I'll fly it." So I did design and engineer around flying this piano. Sure I would never but I had the time to study into how to do it and for at least this design, got to study how to fly a grand piano.

My point hopefully expressed, that it's not all about how many shows you get to work or even design (which means in the real world little to nothing), more if of help from my impression, what you learned while at school that you take with you. A percentage will come from production work, but imagine how many books one could digest if one didn't have to do as many shows per year?

Not to turn you off from design as a primary field of study and intended career. Only just as they hopefully do warn you as much in college as I was warned but never listened to that it's only like the top 10% of all designers - all designers that make it, or realistically like the tope 1% of all designers, than of them perhaps only the top 0.1% of designers that really make it. Imagine that - it's reality.



So a few months back I was sitting in the passenger seat of this designer from work's Lexus... here I stress car payments and he has all kids of cars.... We were talking design and were for the most part speaking the same language and got into concepts of overall design and theorum. At some point concepts got glossy towards each other in a way of both of us specializing in a different aspect of it, and him making the real money in it his career. (Me being in the car with him so as to go to the hardware store and buy some parts for a clothes washer electric I was installing for him, and him paying me to do the electric for him). This guy makes real money in doing his thing, and to a point while respectful and kind he was, my design experience was just not of his class but also field. I was into the noble aspects to a certain extent out of my experience that could be valid, he was into simple and good in many ways for what he makes a living at and is no more difficult for him than me doing some NEMA code plug classification these days. His simple and good is great, my noble is humble in good but not what I'm paid for in the end.

In another few dozen years he will retire in already having made his nest egg and making for an opening for other designers to become great, in another few dozen years I'll stress retirement in perhaps opening up my own position for someone else. This given for me at least, I can probably count on one hand how many people I went to school with - college and high school who are in the theater still. That number gets less and less every deckade. Fairly rare you meet tech people over 40 years old, much less over 50 years old - that's the limitating nature to tech. It's a funnel, have more than one form of training and be ready for that day you perhaps cannot do design or even tech any longer. The what if you fall off a ladder or loose your sight - what are you going to do? The what if you suddenly have a baby... A college degree is very imporant and will get you further in your tech career. A teaching degree perhaps will get you further yet, but be ready to leave the field when need comes by way of an alternate possibility. Lots of theater carpenters for instance I knew became finish carpenters for home remodeling. Lots of other choices for people - just don't let the alternative becoeme gas station has been. Could have been.
Man, can you type alot!
 
Sorry if this seems jarring but, you don't have to have a degree to have a career in lighting. College is great if you want to understand how to be a designer, but it sure isn't going to get you work. Who you know/networking gets you work. But there is more than just being a designer available in lighting. Don't forget the world needs Programmers and Production Electricians too. Sure I started off going to college but then found that I learned so much more working at various places than I could in college.

-j

In my experience, who you know is not nearly as important as who knows you. What I mean by that is that as you gain experience working in the industry, people will get to know what kind of worker you are. Are you hard working and diligent? Or are you a lazy, worthless slug? The people in the industry who know you and your work ethic will send work your way if they believe you're capable of doing it.
 
Last edited:
It's funny. In 5 pages of posts, I have not seen one entry that mentioned community colleges as a starting point for your college education, unless it was in that huge, gigantic post by ship, which I didn't even bother to read. O.K., so I have a short attention span! Sue me!

I did my first couple of years of college at Orange Coast College, a community college in Costa Mesa, California, then transferred to the University of California, Irvine, where I completed my B.A. While UCI had a good program for stage lighting, I frankly had more opportunities to get involved with shows at OCC. I also saved a lot of money on tuition by going this route.

So don't get so fixated on which university to go to that you overlook some of the excellent theatre programs at community colleges.
 
That was too much for me to read too. I'm thinking I'll ahve to go to comm collage next year too.
 
This is probably the best piece of advice I have ever been given, and I was given it when I was in High School asking the exact same questions you are. It is..."Only do theatre if there is NOTHING that you would rather do, and if there is anything out there you would rather do, go do that". My opinion would be to get the BFA, you will have a bit more options, but its really in what you want. A degree in technical theatre is actually pretty marketable in other fields. [...]

That quote is a very valuable piece of advice. And I think you can tell from looking here, a lot of people have found it impossible to find that something else.

My outlook on BFA v BA is, yes, a BFA would be great. They tend to be (tend to!) be more specialized, and frequently involve more dedicated support from the school for performances. However, you should go to a school in a location you like first, as if you're going to be making your contacts there, it should be some place you'll enjoy working (yes, I know we don't go out in daylight, but...) and if you can't find a BFA at a school you want to go to, then don't sweat it. If you're going to be a junior, you'll have time. Just look around wherever you can and get a feel for what you like and don't like.

Footer's right about the variety of jobs. A scenic designer I know now works at Matel designing Barbie showcase exhibits. Hm.



Here's what you do.... since you're majoring in theatre you tell the folks that you would feel safer, and they should too, if you were to live on campus the requisit first two years. Since you are going to be in Technical Rehearsals and load-ins really late at night it would make sense if you lived on campus so you could just stumble home after a long nights partyi...... Um working.

Yes, I'd recommend this... Actually, just last night there was a mixup in my family's plans (I was taking my mom's car home from a outdoor focus session to the grandparent's house, long story) and while the grandma was supposed to be out of town, she decided to leave a day later, and in comes 'Dip at 4:00am with the car keys. Excellent.
 
I don't know what the situation is in the USA, but here in the UK, many theatre production companies don't like you having a lighting design degree, in my experience. I did a basic engineering degree, and while I was at university, worked for the University theatre companies, the English Department, the University Drama Studio, the Student's Union, and several local companies as well. This gave me the experience to set up as a freelance lighting designer and since graduating last June, I've already have several major designs, both in London, Edinburgh Fringe, and around the country. The rest of the time I'm not designing, I work as a stage manager for several production companies and also a lighting engineer and general crew member.

From asking around at different companies, most places are happy if you have a degree from a performing arts college (RADA, LAMDA, RSAMD etc), but not really from a normal university. They'd much prefer an engineering or electronics degree, and then experience. Some qualifications in the UK are useful though, such as electricians certificates etc.

But hey, that's the view from across the pond!
 
Man, can you type alot!

Can't imagine the length of books I also had to read in getting to where I got. Cover to cover and learning stuff in the long form of writing because it covers all concepts and options for statement.

None the less posted and ignore as wished. I paid back my mentors many times over in posting this and other stuff in passing it on what I learned. Deleted in being too long.
 
Last edited:

Users who are viewing this thread

Back