Caustic light effect

Will_Williams

New Member
Hello everyone,

This is my first post and I need help with a project.

I need to create a lighting scenario for a dance performance. The dancer wants to work with vessels of water which reflect/refract light and causes a caustic light effect - here is an image of a caustic light effect:

Screenshot 2022-04-06 at 12.40.25.png


Unfortunately she won’t be performing in a place where the ambient light can be controlled. It will be a glass walled building during day time.

She wants a single shaft of light which can create this effect regardless of the ambient light conditions. When doing tests with a profile spotlight the effect looked good in a darkened room but disappeared immediately in a sunlit room - even on a cloudy day. Unfortunately controlling the outside light by darkening the room is not an option.

Does anyone have any experience with this kind of thing? Are there any good lamps that work particularly well with reflections on water and that can create the caustic light effect efficiently? What kind of lamp would I have to use to compete with sunshine - and what would be the minimum requirements of such a lamp?

A quick word about me - I’m a visual artist and not a lighting professional - so layman's terms as much as possible would be very helpful :)

Many thanks in advance!
 
Hello everyone,

This is my first post and I need help with a project.

I need to create a lighting scenario for a dance performance. The dancer wants to work with vessels of water which reflect/refract light and causes a caustic light effect - here is an image of a caustic light effect:

View attachment 22919

Unfortunately she won’t be performing in a place where the ambient light can be controlled. It will be a glass walled building during day time.

She wants a single shaft of light which can create this effect regardless of the ambient light conditions. When doing tests with a profile spotlight the effect looked good in a darkened room but disappeared immediately in a sunlit room - even on a cloudy day. Unfortunately controlling the outside light by darkening the room is not an option.

Does anyone have any experience with this kind of thing? Are there any good lamps that work particularly well with reflections on water and that can create the caustic light effect efficiently? What kind of lamp would I have to use to compete with sunshine - and what would be the minimum requirements of such a lamp?

A quick word about me - I’m a visual artist and not a lighting professional - so layman's terms as much as possible would be very helpful :)

Many thanks in advance!
@Will_Williams In practical terms, I think you're beat.
If you're familiar with the LARGE, truck based, rotating carbon arc or gas based searchlights used during WW2 to sweep the night skies for approaching aircraft, you're approaching what you'd need. I'm sure another poster will be along soon.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
 
@Will_Williams In practical terms, I think you're beat.
If you're familiar with the LARGE, truck based, rotating carbon arc or gas based searchlights used during WW2 to sweep the night skies for approaching aircraft, you're approaching what you'd need. I'm sure another poster will be along soon.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
Yep, sounds like a job for a 10K.
We used to have to tell directors that we couldn't always accomplish what they imagined, in the real world. NOW we have to tell them they can't do on stage what they saw in a photoshopped or Aftereffects image... :rolleyes: :angryoldman: :wall:
 
Hhhmmmmmm that's a tough one. Hard to compete with the sun with any lighting effect unless you're filming/photographing and can edit visual effects in post. If you're designing for live eyeballs maybe think of dramatic lighting angles that contrast more with the ambient light on the dancer. Instead of lighting through water, you might try bouncing light off of a tray of broken mirror pieces or even broken compact disc pieces (glued down). Either way you're going to need a very bright source.
 
To create the effect (without water) you're looking for either a dual gobo rotator or an effects projector. HOWEVER:

Source 4 750w 36-degree @ 15': 4,348 lux.
Direct unobstructed sunlight : 98,000 lux.

That's not even weighing in the losses to scattering creating the caustic effect, and will only give you a 9' circle.

Could you use the Sun as your light source, rather than fighting it? Place the water vessels along the windows? Mirror-bottomed trays of water reflecting the effect on to the ceiling?
 
Thanks everyone for the feedback!

It confirms the tests - it isn't possible - which is a relief for me because I was worried that it was due to my lack of experience and knowledge. Thank you for the tips as well - @Calc @sk8rsdad the mylar, mirrors and redirecting is going to be a fun experiement :)! @jtweigandt The vessels are clear and inserting a halogen light into the vessels is also defiantely worth a try - a quick try out with a torch went ok in a darkened room! - Will report back on both if successful.

Perhaps a final question would be - what lamp would be the best to use if I did have control over the ambient light? The spotlight in my tests worked ok, but I had the feeling it worked best in the area in which the lamp was focused. I remember seeing a wonderful art installation by Olafur Eliasson where the reflected ripples were all incredibly clear, bright and defined right across the 'image'. Here is a shot of the work:
Screenshot 2022-04-08 at 09.55.44.png


What kind of lamp would he be using for this?

Thanks yet again in advance!
 
Thanks everyone for the feedback!

It confirms the tests - it isn't possible - which is a relief for me because I was worried that it was due to my lack of experience and knowledge. Thank you for the tips as well - @Calc @sk8rsdad the mylar, mirrors and redirecting is going to be a fun experiement :)! @jtweigandt The vessels are clear and inserting a halogen light into the vessels is also defiantely worth a try - a quick try out with a torch went ok in a darkened room! - Will report back on both if successful.

Perhaps a final question would be - what lamp would be the best to use if I did have control over the ambient light? The spotlight in my tests worked ok, but I had the feeling it worked best in the area in which the lamp was focused. I remember seeing a wonderful art installation by Olafur Eliasson where the reflected ripples were all incredibly clear, bright and defined right across the 'image'. Here is a shot of the work:
View attachment 22931

What kind of lamp would he be using for this?

Thanks yet again in advance!
This might give you better insight. But I didn't watch all the way through.
https://www.boijmans.nl/en/exhibitions/olafur-eliasson-notion-motion-2016
 
That last photo looks like a projector! To add my thoughts to to the already incredible ideas, what is the floor made of? If it is something reflective, then you may not need to compete against the sunlight, you'd just have to aim the fixture to bounce along the deck and then 'hit the audience in the face', but that would require either a long throw distance or a low placed fixture. I wonder what could be achieved by placing fixtures behind (or in) the vessels of water with which the director wants to use, and then aiming the aperture towards the audience. Either way, sounds like a great project!
 

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