Cheap controller for both conventionals and LEDs

hemismith

Active Member
Sorry for my ignorance ... I help with some very basic kids community theater. Up until now we've only been using conventional lights and a basic Elation controller. We are adding some LED wash lights and I'm trying to figure out the best way to control them. I was going to switch to a PC based system, and have been researching software and interfaces, but the person who will be operating them is more comfortable with a console so I've been looking at those.

As I started looking at LED controllers it looks like you typically have a fixture button which controls the base address and then various channels for that fixture. (I forgot that DJ lights can have 16 or more channels for various features beyond RGB.) I guess I could just keep our conventional controller and get a separate LED controller, or I could assign the conventional lights to one of the "LED fixtures" on a normal LED controller, or I see something like the Elation Operator Pro that is specifically designed for both LEDs and conventional.

I definitely want to be able to program colors. Some LED controllers have preset color buttons, some have programmable color buttons, but on others do you use scenes to pre-program colors?

If I do go PC-based, I guess there are two options: use a cheap interface and let the computer do the work, or get an expensive proprietary interface that has it's own processing. I'd prefer the former, but does it take a really powerful computer?

One other thing I've noticed is most only have one DMX output. I don't need more than one universe, but my current controller has two which is handy when you're sitting in the middle and running cables to both sides. It looks like splitters cost more than some entire boards and interfaces.

There are some used controllers near me:
Elation Operator Pro (mentioned above)
Teatronics Producer II (never heard of it, doesn't appear to have any particular LED capability)
Strand 520i (quite a monster, not sure if it can do LEDs)
 
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There is a lot to said about topic that you have raised. I will comment on a couple issues.

Of the consoles listed, the Strand board has the capability of defining control attributes and can be programed so that you could tell a LED fixture to go to "Red". In the other two consoles, you would be fiddling with faders to produce a color. However the Strand board, besides being large, is getting a little long in the tooth. The Elation board looks like it is more for clubs and has some considerable limitations with the number of fixtures it can control. The Producer II is just a fader/preset board.

There are many software choices for a PC-based controller. Not all of them will work with a "cheap interface" which I take it to be an Open DMX. The power of the computer is generally not a factor if this will work well. I think it would be better to research the software controllers and decide which interface might work the best for the one you choose. There are a selection that have more than one output and aren't that expensive.
 
I'll ask the questions that everyone else will have in mind:
- What's your budget?
- Have you considered future users?
- Have you considered what future upgrades may include?

Best of luck!
 
There is a lot to said about topic that you have raised. I will comment on a couple issues.

Of the consoles listed, the Strand board has the capability of defining control attributes and can be programed so that you could tell a LED fixture to go to "Red". In the other two consoles, you would be fiddling with faders to produce a color. However the Strand board, besides being large, is getting a little long in the tooth. The Elation board looks like it is more for clubs and has some considerable limitations with the number of fixtures it can control. The Producer II is just a fader/preset board.

There are many software choices for a PC-based controller. Not all of them will work with a "cheap interface" which I take it to be an Open DMX. The power of the computer is generally not a factor if this will work well. I think it would be better to research the software controllers and decide which interface might work the best for the one you choose. There are a selection that have more than one output and aren't that expensive.

Thank you very much. I suspected what you said about the Strand (I've since found out it's a 520i) and the Teatronics. I'm surprised the Elation wouldn't have some way to preprogram colors. I was going to download the manuals and read through them but haven't had a chance yet.

I will continue to look at software based systems. I was thinking of going with DMXControl and the Enttec Open DMX, but then I saw MagicQ and the MagicDMX Basic. They are out of stock of the Basic until June, but the regular interface isn't that expensive either.
 
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I'll ask the questions that everyone else will have in mind:
- What's your budget?
- Have you considered future users?
- Have you considered what future upgrades may include?

Best of luck!

Here's some background -
The stuff I do usually has little or no budget. This all started years ago when my wife was directing some productions so she approved our purchase of some cheap lighting -- just some PARs, stands, dimmers, and a controller. I then did a couple shows for a director who had more complicated lighting requirements. We got some fixtures for free and had a little budget to rent some. But it was not fun staying till 2 am after every rehearsal reprogramming the cheap Elation board, so I vowed to get a software system. But she moved away and my equipment has been sufficient until now. The director I am working with now has some budget to rent but not enough to buy what I have, and it doesn't make sense for her to buy a controller without owning anything else. If it's a basic controller renting is fine, but if it's anything complicated we wouldn't have time to learn it.

So I was just planning on getting something on my own dime, but my wife doesn't like me spending too much (since it's not her show). I was looking at options up to $300 but it would be easier if I could keep it around $100.

Since it's my stuff I'm not as concerned about future users, but for this particular show I'm doing sound and someone else is doing lights so I thought a console would be easier.

At this point there will not be a budget with either me or the groups I help for more than limited basic lighting for the foreseeable future. Only 4-8 channels of conventional and probably the same for LEDs. I do have some DJ lights that have 18 channels but I just use them for parties and have a remote, not sure I will ever need to use a real controller for them.
 
Here's some background -
The stuff I do usually has little or no budget. This all started years ago when my wife was directing some productions so she approved our purchase of some cheap lighting -- just some PARs, stands, dimmers, and a controller. I then did a couple shows for a director who had more complicated lighting requirements. We got some fixtures for free and had a little budget to rent some. But it was not fun staying till 2 am after every rehearsal reprogramming the cheap Elation board, so I vowed to get a software system. But she moved away and my equipment has been sufficient until now. The director I am working with now has some budget to rent but not enough to buy what I have, and it doesn't make sense for her to buy a controller without owning anything else. If it's a basic controller renting is fine, but if it's anything complicated we wouldn't have time to learn it.

So I was just planning on getting something on my own dime, but my wife doesn't like me spending too much (since it's not her show). I was looking at options up to $300 but it would be easier if I could keep it around $100.

Since it's my stuff I'm not as concerned about future users, but for this particular show I'm doing sound and someone else is doing lights so I thought a console would be easier.

At this point there will not be a budget with either me or the groups I help for more than limited basic lighting for the foreseeable future. Only 4-8 channels of conventional and probably the same for LEDs. I do have some DJ lights that have 18 channels but I just use them for parties and have a remote, not sure I will ever need to use a real controller for them.
@hemismith You appear to fit the term: "Voluntold". Many of us got our start by being 'voluntold'.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.
 
One option to explore. Many consoles output midi. Many PC solutions will listen to midi. One possibility would be to use the console for conventional s and use a PC solution for LEDs and movers. ( not sure if the elation outputs midi or not)


Not the best solution, but may be an option to consider
 
You might look at the Martin M-Touch. It's both a wing and output interface. Under $500 last I saw.

I know many churches use Chamsys due to its very low first cost. Fully functional and capable software. The downside is upgrading is much more expensive.

Are you attached to a school or other educational non-profit? The ETC Nomad educational deal ($250!!) gets you some great tools. It's PC solution but can integrate your old board via the gadget and/or a Midi wing.
 
Thanks, I'll look at those options.

Didn't know about the ETC deal, I'll look into that. My wife was the drama teacher at a school but quit last year, but I am the tech director for our church so will see if that qualifies.
 
If you're looking at M-PC, it will output a single universe with an Enttec dongle for free, and 4 universes via art.net or sACN. The M-Play or M-Touch are fantastic deals, and good hardware as well, they're just 5-6 times as much. With an Enttec dmx box, you get access to a lot of software for free or cheap that has been made to work with it. That gives you things to explore and decide what works best for you.
 
Hi Craig:

Phil with ChamSys here. Our software works with the ENTTEC Pro mentioned above, or our own MagicDMX dongles - see www.magicDMX.com Windows, Mac or Linux, pretty much any computer from the last 4-5 years will do. We've got a free visualiser too to help learn to program.

The software can be downloaded here

We have training in Salt Lake next week, as mentioned. We have many training resources and course - all listed on our training page - here

We've got some cool people on this forum who are happy to help with questions - or you can reach us here ([email protected]) or see my email in the signature. I hope we might prove useful for your events.
 
Thanks very much everyone. That's great that there's training here next week; not sure if I can get the time off work but will look into it.
 

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