Cheap light boards? What's at the bottom end?

[Sayen]

Are we talking 100 addresses or 100 fixtures? "Channel" is such an over used word these days!

I should have said addresses, sorry. With their existing 4-channel LEDs they need 22 addresses for what he wants now, and I was just looking ballpark low end growth. The SS48 might be the best bet.

I'm pro-PC by the way. I prefer the tactile of a real board, but at the school I teach at we regularly send out groups with a PC solution when they don't need a full console.

Thank you all for the input too! I'm compiling answers to send to the director.

 

[MikeJ]

It is a bit clunky to set up, but you could use a Midi controler along with most software, to allow for real buttons and faders for playback. If most of what you do is single scene playback, a novation launchpad S or mini might make it easier when you need to just show someone what button to press.

 

[Judge]

Sayen, it really sound as if your musical director is an opinionated idiot. I have a hard time around people like that. He needs to realise that you are in charge of lighting and it must be your decision. He also needs to realise right away that a lighting console IS a PC. Inside every console is an industry standard motherboard with a CPU, memory and hard drive, all running off Linux or Windows.
The difference is, and this is crucial - that PC must never be used for anything else. When somebody rocks up with a laptop that he uses for every day work and play and then tries to run Titan or MagicQ on it on a live show, then yes, there are likely to be issues. If its a clean machine then you are fine. I spent most of last year running a show from a Titan Mobile, no problems at all.

 

[James Feenstra]

The difference is, and this is crucial - that PC must never be used for anything else. When somebody rocks up with a laptop that he uses for every day work and play and then tries to run Titan or MagicQ on it on a live show, then yes, there are likely to be issues. If its a clean machine then you are fine. I spent most of last year running a show from a Titan Mobile, no problems at all.

This is definitely the key point...

strip the computer down to the minimum you can get away with, and then don't use it for anything outside of being a lighting console...

I've been running Vista on my macbook pro since I bought it in early 2011 and have never had an issue with it

 

[JD]

And behind that window in which you are operating your light board, is another window that says:

"Windows will be restarting your computer in 15 seconds" 14... 13... 12....

!!! Remember to turn off Windows Update if you are using your computer as a lighting console !!!

 

[sk8rsdad]

!!! Remember to turn off Windows Update if you are using your computer as a lighting console !!!

Better yet, don't connect your lighting console to the internet.

 

[zmb]

And behind that window in which you are operating your light board, is another window that says:

"Windows will be restarting your computer in 15 seconds" 14... 13... 12....

!!! Remember to turn off Windows Update if you are using your computer as a lighting console !!!

I think Windows 8 is better about this now, giving up to a 48 hour notice in multiple places that it needs a restart.
And if you go with Windows 8, which is just as stable as 7 and way faster on all hardware, make sure to get Start8 to make it usable.

 

[techieman33]

I think Windows 8 is better about this now, giving up to a 48 hour notice in multiple places that it needs a restart.
And if you go with Windows 8, which is just as stable as 7 and way faster on all hardware, make sure to get Start8 to make it usable.

Which is exactly why I'll stick to windows 7, you shouldn't have to install 3rd party software just to make an OS functional.

 

[JD]

Wish they would release a product called "Windows Done", as a completed operating system that doesn't have to be tinkered with for the next 5 years.

I agree that any system that will be run as a console should never be tied to the internet. Sometimes, you have to just to download the board software and drivers, but once it's set, pull the plug!

In doing IT work, one of my biggest frustrations is walking in and finding workstations down that were working fine the day before but were taken out due to an incompatibility brought on by an OS or other software update.

 

[techieman33]

Wish they would release a product called "Windows Done", as a completed operating system that doesn't have to be tinkered with for the next 5 years.

I agree that any system that will be run as a console should never be tied to the internet. Sometimes, you have to just to download the board software and drivers, but once it's set, pull the plug!

In doing IT work, one of my biggest frustrations is walking in and finding workstations down that were working fine the day before but were taken out due to an incompatibility brought on by an OS or other software update.

Windows Done will never happen, the code base just keeps growing and growing, it would be nearly impossible to fix all the bad code. I'm more in favor of downloading the software on another machine running virus checks on it, and then transferring it to another machine with a freshly formatted usb drive. It's not that uncommon to get infected right out of the box since it hasn't been updated yet. And yes the IT dept should be kept far away from any show critical machine unless it's having problems.

 

[Sayen]

And behind that window in which you are operating your light board, is another window that says:

"Windows will be restarting your computer in 15 seconds" 14... 13... 12....

!!! Remember to turn off Windows Update if you are using your computer as a lighting console !!!

I don't remember how, but you can turn this off in the Admin settings for Windows 7 and 8. I've been running 8 happily for a while, and there are a lot of great tweaks under the hood in 8. But I like control, and the computer only gets to reboot when I say so!

 

[JD]

I don't remember how, but you can turn this off in the Admin settings for Windows 7 and 8. I've been running 8 happily for a while, and there are a lot of great tweaks under the hood in 8. But I like control, and the computer only gets to reboot when I say so!

Win7
Control Panel\All Control Panel Items\Windows Update\Change settings

 

[zmb]

Windows Done will never happen, the code base just keeps growing and growing, it would be nearly impossible to fix all the bad code. I'm more in favor of downloading the software on another machine running virus checks on it, and then transferring it to another machine with a freshly formatted usb drive. It's not that uncommon to get infected right out of the box since it hasn't been updated yet. And yes the IT dept should be kept far away from any show critical machine unless it's having problems.

Nothing of Windows-scale like OS X, Healthcare.gov, Facebook, Google, and other large-scale computing projects will never be done because the creators are trying to satisfy two goals at once. They both want to make it have more features while also increasing efficient to use less resources.

 

[gafftaper]

Has anyone seen a Strand 200 Plus? It's an interesting alternative to consider, much like a Smartfade. Still not as good as a Cognito or any of the mid range consoles, but it should be a much higher quality console than $200 options listed above. I don't know how much they cost, so it may be way out of reach of the silly $500 budget.

 

[JD]

Has anyone seen a Strand 200 Plus? It's an interesting alternative to consider, much like a Smartfade. Still not as good as a Cognito or any of the mid range consoles, but it should be a much higher quality console than $200 options listed above. I don't know how much they cost, so it may be way out of reach of the silly $500 budget.

About $1800 but a whole different league. This would be considered a "real" board. Everything is relative (most good boards cost more than most good cars), but still, you can operated it stand-alone, connect a monitor to it for better visual of what you are doing, save your show on to a thumb drive, etc. It also outputs to TWO 512 universes. So, in other words, once your director gives in, this would be a good unit for you.

 

[zmb]

Has anyone seen a Strand 200 Plus? It's an interesting alternative to consider, much like a Smartfade. Still not as good as a Cognito or any of the mid range consoles, but it should be a much higher quality console than $200 options listed above. I don't know how much they cost, so it may be way out of reach of the silly $500 budget.

I've used a 200 before and it's great where you need to control a bunch while still keeping it simple. Very nice having a patch on a two-scene board and many submasters. I have no idea when I would have the chance to.
250 ML is the next step up and is designed to handle mutli-parameter fixtures and even has a cue stack. But is definitely going to be expensive

 

[soundlight]

Should point out here that the discontinued Strand 200 and the now-imported and not Strand-designed Strand 200 Plus are two very different beasts. The 200 Plus sounds like a half baked Smartfade ML. Oddly enough, Elation used to sell the very same imported console under the name Trio. No one bought them and they were discontinued.

On the other hand, I've heard nothing but good things about the Strand 250ML, and I liked working with it after a short demo.

However, we're talking about low end here. I like the Chauvet Stage Designer 50. It's got 4 pages of 12 submasters each, but each submaster can also be a chase with rate set via a fader or tap tempo or set to manual trigger via the step button, much like a go button. So you can have pages of mini cue-lists. You can only have one active at a time though if you want them to act like that. It's got 2 pages of 24 channels of control, giving you 48 channels, plus 2 independents on rotary pots.

The main issue with the SD50 is the very poor manual. I learned half of what I did on it by just poking around and seeing what I could accomplish after figuring out the console's logic (or lack thereof). In short, I made it work pretty well for some RGB LED cans, halogen pars, and some small effects lights. I still have it but some of the faders are having issues and since I don't power it up often I'd have to reprogram it every time as there's no way to save memory and the storage doesn't keep if you leave it unplugged for months at a time.

if you can find a good condition used NSI MC7532 for cheap, that's 64 channels of control with 32 submasters for cheap (I've seen good ones go for 300-500 on ebay every now and then). Great boards because they're built very solid (much more so than the 70xx series) and very easy to program. I had one installed a student club in college running conventionals and a dozen RGB LED PARs (not all individually, I think there were 6 groups of control for those - 2 fixtures ganged together for each).

 

[stgtech91]

I'll second James,

Take a look at the StageCL;
http://jands.com/stage-cl/

.

I have been installing these things and every client seems to love them. Several churches that we put them in after they were used to running Smartfade ML's can't believe how easy they are to use. It will only handle LED's or dimmers (no movers) but it certainly does so very well. At around $1900 it is certainly not a $500 piece of gear but its worth the money.

 

[gafftaper]

I was checking out CB's new advertiser LightAuction.com and noticed they have a stack of Zero 88 Fat Frogs for $600 each. It's old but it was a pretty good console in it's day. It's no EOS, but it could probably handle your needs and be a pretty good option and in your price range.

 

[JohnA]

I would recommend the Zero 88 Fat Frog, esp at that price. For basic ops: It offers either 2 scene operation of 24 channels, or wide operation with 48 channels. In addition you get 12 intelligent lighting channels There are 20 pages of 12 submasters, allowing you to run pre-programmed cues from the subs. Also, the board offers 600 memory channels (stack) if you wish to playback cues via a "GO" button. The console can be set as cue only or tracking. Cues can be edited. Programming syntax is different than that of an Ion or other ETC product, but far superior to any SD or DJ board. The patch is completely programmable, out put is 1 universe of DMX512. There is also an off line editor to set up cues in advance. You will need a VGA monitor to effectively program and use the console. Also-it only uses floppy discs for storage, no USB.