The above Ad will no longer appear after you Sign Up for Free!

Cheap Torch/ Fire

Discussion in 'Lighting and Electrics' started by Garen, Mar 11, 2004.

  1. Garen

    Garen Member

    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hi, I have been confonted with a challenge of creating a fire torch. I would like to try to build something that is cheap (less than 20$/torch) that also gives off light.

    I was thinking of some cheap cone-like shape with a regular incandesenct house light bulb inside, and putting a gel "collage" of fire colors over the open top end of the cone...

    this is just a mental challenge for me, I probably will not be contructing this, but thinking of how to make one is sort of bothering me...

    ALSO, what is a good way make it look like there is a fire offstage, but still casting light on a lot of it...

    THANKS!
    ~Garen
     
  2. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

    Messages:
    6,211
    Likes Received:
    478
    Location:
    Illinois
    I think we already discussed flame effects on stage at one point but more ideas from others would be of interest. A few things not mentioned were REEL EFX machines and use of Ripple Machines when colored red/amber. More ideas by others would be good but here is mine to start out.





    You might want to look at some flicker bulbs such as these, they are 120v lamps but will work under battery if you can get the voltage correct:
    Type: Brand: Description: Wattage: Bulb: Filament
    Arc Gap LCL/MOL Base: Notes / CRI Color Temp Output: Life:

    FF6406 Norman Lamps Orange Glow, Clear Neon Flicker Lamp 1/4 w F-1.17" Flicker MOL 3.8" Candb. 8mA, 120K Resistor in Base 25,000

    2CA8C/ CL/ FL/ BL Osram/Sylvania #13497 CL, Flicker Lamp, Incd. Vacuum Filled, Alum. Base 2 w CA-8 Flicker MOL 3.1/2" Candb. Blister Pack 3,000
    3CA5½/FLK Abco #03661 CL, Incd. Flicker Lamp 3 w CA-5½ Flicker MOL 3.1/4" Candb. Carded Available #03761 1,500
    3CA8/FLK Abco #03656 CL, Incd. Flicker Lamp 3 w CA-8 Flicker MOL 3.7/8" Candb. Carded Available #03756 1,500
    CFTC3 Halco #2502 CL, Incd Flicker Flame Lamp 3w/130v CA-8 Flicker MOL 3" Candb. 1,500
    CFC3 Halco #2008 CL, Incd. Flicker Flame Lamp 3w/130v CA-10 Flicker MOL 4.1/16" Candb. 1,500

    FF7706 Norman Lamps Orange Glow, Clear Neon Flicker Lamp 1/4 w F-1.17" Flicker MOL 3.1/2" Med.Scr 8mA, 120K Resistor in Base 25,000
    2CA10/CL/FL/BL Osram/Sylvania #13496 Incd. Clear Flicker Lamp, Vacuum Filled, Alum. Base 2 w CA-10 Flicker MOL 3.1/2" Med.Scr Blister Pack 3,000
    3CA10/FLK Abco #03657 CL, Incd. Flicker Lamp 3 w CA-10 Flicker MOL 4.1/16" E-26 Carded Available #03757 1,500
    EFC3 Halco #2510 CL, Incd. Flicker Flame Lamp 3w/130v CA-10 Flicker MOL 4.1/16" E-26 1,500
    3EFC/FL Fiet CL, Incd. Flicker Flame Lamp 3 w CA-10 Flicker E-26

    2CA10/ CL/ FL/ BL Osram/Sylvania #13620 Incandescent, Clear Flicker Lamp 10 w CA-10 Flicker MOL 4.1/8" Med.Scr 3,000


    You can also go with an amber colored flame shape lamp and put a flash insert into the lamp base such as you might find at Home Depot as a circular dot that's fiber on the outside and metal in the middle. I don't think it will work under DC Voltage however. And DC battery voltage would be the easiest way to power it up.

    With the lamps above, the flame effect kind of sparkles or flickers in the flame shaped filament so you do not have to gel or dip the lamp. Lamp dip would be the best way to do it but for a low wattage lamp any kind of glaze might be sufficient.

    These would be more candle effect and not much for a flame effect or output.

    On the lamp, F-15 or F-10.1/2 lamps would be the incandescent lamps shaped like a flame, sometimes with coloring added to it and flame like filaments but the filament does not move like a flicker lamp. In any case unless you have 120v, flicker button, flame lamp, or flicker lamps won't work off a battery very well. On second thought, the flicker lamps and buttons might need AC voltage to work properly. That about lets them out but there is some electronics on the market for doing a DC flicker effect.


    Otherwise since it's portable I expect than I would head towards something say 6 volts rather than 12 volts because it's easier to achieve with batteries and have it last a while.

    For high output I might try for a low voltage capsule lamp such as a 6v/30w lamp. Add to that some colored silk flame shaped material and a micro fan also run off the battery and you have a mini torch. LeMaitrie and City Theatrical might probably already have similar or better things amongst other suppliers, it's a popular idea, but if the idea is to build it than that's how I might go. Batteries, switch, fan, lamp & Base in some kind of torch like tube with a @ like bracket to slide the silk ribbon or flame shape into.

    Otherwise you can get a amber, red or blue lens covered MR-11 or MR-16 lamp to pre-color especially white silk fire streamer but might have more problems with the fan unless you had the light shining thru the fan. Also you would have more of a flash light than a point source of light with lots of flame as with the capsule lights such as these:
    #64265 HLX Osram/Sylvania #53999 CL, Quartz 30w/6v T-2 G 4 “Xenophot” CRI 100 700 lum 100
    #5761 Philips #25713-9 (#25713) CL, Quartz Capsule (Square Filament) 30w/6v T-3.5 C-6F LCL 19.6mm G 4 (Filmt.1.5x1.5mm) Universal Burn Pos. 3,200°K 765 Lum 100
    #5761 Helco #257139 (JC30/6v) CL, Quartz Capsule 30w/6v T-3.5 C-6F LCL 1.1/5" G 4 3,000°K 765 Lum 100
    JC 6-30 G4 Philips #924809310177 CL, Quartz Capsule (Flat Filament) 30w/6v T-9mm 7x2.5mm LCL 19.5mm G 4 Base Down ±90° 3,100°K 800 Lum 50
    JC6v-30w Ushio #1000867 CL, Quartz 30w/6v T-9mm c-6 T-19.25mm G 4 Univ. Burn 3,300°K 800 Lum 50



    #778 G.E. #49718 CL, Quartz, Hi-Temp Fixture 20w/6v T-2.3/4 c-6 LCL 0.77" G 4 Bulk Pack #49719 32 Lum 100
    #778 Halco CL, Quartz 20w/6v T-2.3/4 c-6 MOL 1.05" G 4 32 Cand 100
    ESB G.E. #34718 (?disc.) (M-30) CL, Quartz Capsule 20w/6v T-10mm Transv. LCL 19.5mm G 4 3,200°K 440 Lum 100
    ESB Osram/Sylvania #54019 (#64250 HLX) (M-30) CL, Quartz Capsule 20w/6v T-3.1/2 2.3x0.8mm LCL 19.5mm G 4 “Xenophot” (CRI 100)Any Burn Pos. 480 Lum 100
    ESB Philips #25678-4(409867) (#7388) (M-30) CL, Quartz Capsule 20w/6v T-9mm c-6 LCL 19.5mm G 4 (Filmt. 1.6x0.6mm) Universal Burn Pos. 3,200°K 420 Lum 100
    ESB/FHE Wiko CL, Quartz Capsule 20w/6v T-9mm c-6 LCL 19.5mm G 4 3,200°K 450 Lum 100
    ESB Norman Lamps (#64250) (JC-0620) CL, Quartz Capsule 20w/6v T-9mm MOL 30mm G 4 2,800°K 2,000
    ESB Halco CL, Quartz 20w/6v T-3 c-6 2 Pin Any Burn Pos. 3,200°K 420 Lum 100
    ESB-AX Norman Lamps (#64250AX) (JC-0620AX) CL, Quartz Capsule 20w/6v T-9mm Axial Fmt MOL 30mm G 4 2,800°K 2,000
    FHE/ESB Ushio #1000532 CL, Halogen Capsule, 20w/6v T-9mm c-6 LCL 19.5mm G 4 Any Burn Pos. 3,200°K 450 Lum 100
    20T3Q/CL6v Reflekto #163910 CL, Quartz Capsule 20w/6v T-3 cBar-6 MOL 33mm G 4 Dimmable/UV Protect. Glass 350 Lum 1,000
    20T3Q/CL6v Reflekto #115910 CL, Quartz Capsule 20w/6v T-3 c-6 MOL 33mm G 4 Dimmable/UV Protect. Glass 350 Lum 2,000
    JC6v-20w/c-8 Ushio #1000865 CL, Quartz Capsule 20w/6v T-9mm c-8 LCL 19.5mm G 4 Univ. Burn N/A 435 Lum 100
    JC 6v-20w/c-6 Ushio #1000866 CL, Quartz Capsule 20w/6v T-9mm c-6 MOL 19.5mm G 4 Universal Burn 2,850°K 280 Lum 2,000
    JC6v20w20H/G4 EYE #63677 CL, Quartz Capsule 20w/6v T-3 c-6 MOL 33mm G 4 2,850°K 280 Lum 2,000
    20JC6v A & H CL, Quartz 20w/6v c-6 MOL 1.5/16" G 4 Available w. C-Bar-6 Filament 280 Lum
    JC 6v/20w Jiadair CL, Quartz 20w/6v T-10mm MOL 31mm G 4 350 Lum 2,000
    ESB (FR) Norman Lamps (#64250-FR) (JC-0620FR) FR, Quartz Capsule 20w/6v T-9mm MOL 30mm G 4 2,800°K 2,000
    #12345 Philips #924043117100 (M-35) CL, Quartz Capsule 20w/6v T-9mm 2.9x0.8mm LCL 19.5mm G 4 Universal Burn Pos. 3,100°K 420 Lum 400


    One more note would be on the lamp outputs which is why I posted all the data on them. Note the lumens in output and color temperature. While it might be nice to have a 3,300°K color temperature for a very piercing white/blue center of the flame, especially with colored flames, it might be better to use something at around 2,800°K and slightly under voltage it for more amber shift - in other words a more amber fire like light. The Osram Xenon lamp might be above 3,300°K and into the 3,400°K range by the way, unfortunately it's not published.
    In any case with luminous output, it's going to drop sharply with undervoltaging or when the batteries wear down. A 700 lumen lamp at 30 watts will tend to wear down the batteries faster so the 20w lamps are also included to decide with. I would go with what ever is most powerful in output but lowest in color temperature.

    On the other hand that #64265 HLX with it's xenon filler - expected to be above 3,300°K and with 700 lumens output is really interesting because it's only a T-2 lamp meaning 1/4" wide. If still made that is. Might be discontinued. 700 lumens is brighter than a 75w incandescent bulb and at a higher color temperature than a S-4 Leko lamp.

    Have fun, hope it helps.
     
  3. Garen

    Garen Member

    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    0
    THANKS! very helpful while i learned a lot :lol: !!
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice