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chiller module

Discussion in 'Special Effects' started by taylorjacobs, Feb 8, 2007.

  1. taylorjacobs

    taylorjacobs Member

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    We are planning on using "low lying fog" in our upcoming production, and we do not want to shell out the big bucks to get this effect because we have other things that are going to be farely expensive for this show. I know it is possible to create a chiller module for a fog machine, which is what we are planning to do. Does anyone have any suggestions about how to go about this? We were planning on rigging up dryer ducting and an ice chest, just fun dryer ducting from the hazer to the ice chest fll icechest with dry ice and fun duting out...thus chilling the haze. Has anyone used this method before?

    Thanks for your help
    Taylor
     
  2. soundlight

    soundlight Well-Known Member

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    Make sure that you use a fog machine and not a hazer. There is a difference.

    Your idea sounds like a good one. If you can, I'd get some dry ice from the local grocery store if you can (I know that I can pick it up at the Lowes' Foods in my hometown). That would chill the ice more. But if not, just use standard ice, and use a lot of it.
     
  3. audioslavematt

    audioslavematt Active Member

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    If you do end up using regular ice, throw some salt on it. That will allow the temperature to drop down another twenty degrees or so.
     
  4. Footer

    Footer Senior Team Senior Team Premium Member

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    the best thing to do is to get some type of old radiator that you can run cooled water through. The cheaper situation, which works almost as well is to get a cooler, pack it with dry ice, and run the fog through. Put a 4" fan on each side to move the fog through. If you can lay your hands on a radiator that fits in your cooler and can pack dry ice around it that is also a great way to do that.
     
  5. Too_Tall

    Too_Tall Member

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    i have seen it done in two ways. The fist was for the Christmas Carol, we used dry ice to crate haze. We had the ghost of Christmas present have a big cup half filled with water. Then right before he went on stage, we dropped dry ice chunks into his cup, it created a low lying fog that lasted about 3 minutes. The other was for Hairspray, i was a low lying haze type effect. We needed a fast moving low lying haze. The other requirement was to make it go away really fast. For this we just hooked up CO2. it costs a lot more money, but it looked cool.
     
  6. Van

    Van CBMod CB Mods Premium Member

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    The Water cooler dry-ice solution is the one tried and true way to chill gylcol based fog. Here are a coule of things to keep in mind while building the chiller unit. Grab an old metal rack, like from an oven, put legs on it so it that when you set it into the cooler it sits about 4 inches off the bottom of the cooler. Cut a 4 " hole in the upper half of one end
    and in the lower half of the other end. Mount a 4" "muffin" < brushless> fan
    http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg/itemDetailsRender.shtml?ItemId=1611724460 on the outside of the lower hole. Put Dryer hose duct adapter over upper hole. Screw it into place over hole and seal it in place with silicone caulk. on he outside < discharge side> of the fan place another adapter. Be sure to seal the fan against the cooler and place a good amount of caulk between the fan and the duct adapter, this will insulate it from and vibrations and reduce noise. Run standard dryer duct hose from the fog machineto the inlet side of the chest. Be sure to use a "Fog machine Duct Hose adapter" < see picture below> the fog must get exposure to air prior to entering the chest, if you don't use a hose adapter similar to below you run the risk of damaging the fog machine and not getting any output from the fog machine.
    Kick on the fan, turn on the fog, Viola' low lying fog. You can duct from the output side of the cooler with the use of a specialized adapter. You'll want to use about 5-10 pounds of dry ice in the cooler, luckily it will last a while if you wrap it up in a blanket and leave it in the cooler, or remove it from the cooler and move it to another. The dry ice needs to be crushed, not pebbles but 1-3" chunks. The more surface area of ice the better the cooling capacity. This is the same reason you want a metal rack or grill in the bottom of the chest, it will allow for more air-flow around the ice, same as with the input being high and the output being low, this will cause the fog to be drawn down across the ice then out through the duct.
    When your done with this setup you'll have a heck of a tool ! very useful and a lot less expensive than the one availible from Rosco. < I'm not knocking the one from Rosco, if you can just buy it.>

    Good luck hit me with any questions you might have on this project.
     

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    Last edited: Jul 15, 2008
  7. saxman0317

    saxman0317 Active Member

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    If your looking to cut costs, just use dry ice. Weldding supply places round here have it almost dirt cheap and we just use a "modified" shop vac to mix it in. Just duct tape everything off and use the wand to place the fog or go into whatever your useing to disperse it, and the clamps hold pretty well.
     
  8. taylorjacobs

    taylorjacobs Member

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    van, a little curious as to why you need seraption between to fogger and the ducting...would this not let fog out? also, is it possible to do this without a fan? this is a competition show and rules are pretty strict one of them being about fans.

    thanks taylor
     
  9. Van

    Van CBMod CB Mods Premium Member

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    Two reasons one is the Venturi effect when the fog "thrusts" into the duct it will pull in air which, in turn will help propel the fog further down the duct. The second s that the fog needs exposure to the air to fully form. Glycol based fog systemsbasically work by encapsulating steam particles in glycol. If you don't have the air space between the duct and the fogger the resulting rise in temperature in the duct will make the machine less and less effective as the temp rises. This is why Rosco invented them for thier 1500 series foggers.
    As to the fan, I'd say you can try it but I'll not guaranttee the results. you really need someting to motivate the fog out of the chiller modules or it's going to build up, condense and just pool up on the bottom of the ice chest. Imagine blowing smoke into a paper bag with one small hole on the end. It'll just billow back up the inlet tubeand boil out around the fog machine. I'm not sure what the rules are in your competittion concerning fans. When we did one acts and ACTF there weren't any rules about fans. Is it possible they are referring to box fans or large wind generators ? You could argue the fact that this is not a fan it's an impeller for pushing fog.
     
  10. taylorjacobs

    taylorjacobs Member

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    that makes sense.


    if i were to use this "impeller" which is what i will be referring to it as for rule breaking purposes i would need to put it in the hole that is going out of the chiller correct?

    thanks for all your help.

    I will let you know how it works out

    taylor
     
  11. Van

    Van CBMod CB Mods Premium Member

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    Yes the "impeller" is placed in the exhaust side of the chest. Good luck.
     
  12. egorleski

    egorleski Member

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    Another option would be to chill it later down the line it seems like right now you are thinking about a system like this ------------[chiller]---------> this means that you need to create a wind current to make the fog continue down the tubing. However if you do the chilling at the end of the line this problem will be aleivated. I dont know what effects you are doing, but just sticking some dry ice right near the end of the tube will still chill it considerably. And, as long as you use the metalic ducting, the ducting can be used again and again without any damage from the dry ice. Alternatively, our good friend gravity could be of assistance. coming out of the machine the fog is hot/warm and thus will make rises easily. You can raise the location of the chiller so that it makes it in because its hot and rises, and it gets to the other end because its cool and wants to lay low and thus will travel down through the other end. Good luck
     
  13. BillESC

    BillESC Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    Two things to consider.

    1. Chilling fog condenses it to about one half to one quarter the original volume. You'll need a very big machine (25000 cfm) to get a decent effect.

    2. If you're buying dry ice anyway make yourself a dry ice fog machine.

    Directions for DI machine.

    1 - 30 gallon steel drum w/lid
    1 - 1500w domestic hot water heating element
    1 - 4" dryer vent hose

    Total cost of above around $ 50.00

    Bolt heating element 4" from the bottom of the drum and seal with 3M sealer and install a 12/3 lead with plug.

    Cut a 4" diameter hole at the top of the drum and affix the vent hose.

    Heat 15 gallons of water for two hours minimum (should see steam rising from drum) Chop 50 pounds of dry ice into 3 to 4" chunks. Have one person dump all of the ice into the drum at once while a second person immediately puts the lid in place and then sits on it.

    You will have 40,000 cubic feet of CO2 fog rolling across the floor within 20 seconds. The effect will last only about 2 minutes but will be impressive.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2007
  14. taylorjacobs

    taylorjacobs Member

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    thanks for all your guys help, it ended up working REALLY well, i was plesently surprised, I did not need a fan, becuse we recieved a new F100 fogger just for this and that sucker is powerful. i pretty much just cut two holes in an ice chest put some ice in it ran dryer ducting in and out of it and it works like a charm
     

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