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Chocolate gel?

Discussion in 'Lighting and Electrics' started by derekleffew, Jan 29, 2008.

  1. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

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    Many of you have in the past expressed a liking for R99, L156, or AP7100, (can't find the GAM#). Could you please explain to me why? Skeptically, I tried it once in college, and confirmed my suspicions. All it did was dim the light, and guess what they were already on a dimmer that I could control; and warm-up the light, and that happened also due to amber-drift as I ran the dimmer down. If I want a warm source but still keep the intensity, L151, L152, L153, L154, and L162 and L176, or R01-R04 have always done everything I needed them to.

    If I wanted to dim a light and warm it up, R03 (Dark BA)+L210 (0.6ND) comes pretty close to R99, but I've never needed or wanted that. So please help me to understand some of you people's love of chocolate.

    Maybe I don't get it because I was taught there's no such thing as "tan, brown, or gray" light. And I've never had anyone ask me to mix any of those from a CYM source either.
     
  2. Logos

    Logos Well-Known Member

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    I'll answer this tomorrow when I am not stoned out of my head on prescription super strength painkillers for my teeth. I have been on them all day today and I feel very strange.
     
  3. len

    len Well-Known Member

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    I was the ME for a tour in which one of the follow spot frames had a chocolate gel in it. I can't recall them ever using that frame. I think it was for a planned tv show, which never happened. In fact, they spec-ed a gel for every frame and I don't think they ever used but one of them. Yet the LD insisted on checking to make sure every frame had the right gel in it every night. Oh well, it wasn't my money they wasted.
     
  4. Kelite

    Kelite Apollo Staff Premium Member

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    Not having developed the transmission, I can merely speculate why Chocolate is still around...

    The possible answer is that this transmission warms the color temperature while adding a bit of neutral density. Since this color selection has been around for quite some time, it's my guess that other more measurable (and predictable) gel transmissions were developed to aid in each shift. (Color temp as well as ND)

    I have been told that certain skin colors/types respond under stage lighting better with this transmission, as opposed to ambers, pinks and straws. But again, this is what I've been told. (Perhaps this is why Apollo AP-7100 Hot Cocoa does not place in the top 100 of our best-selling transmissions....)
     
    derekleffew likes this.
  5. jmabray

    jmabray Active Member

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    I like R99. When doing Black Box shows where I had to lay in Houselights as part of the plot, I always had them Gelled R99. There is a certain warmth to it that you can't get from other sources. It warms the light with out going too amber, especially when dimming. I have used it on stage several times as well, but usually for specials and the like.
     
  6. TimMiller

    TimMiller Well-Known Member

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    Chocolate works really well on people who have dark skin. It doesnt wash them out.
     
  7. Logos

    Logos Well-Known Member

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    Over the years I have lit a number of small scale productions of what can best be described as kitchen sink drama. English playwrights like Osbourne and Pinter. I've used a lot of Chocolate in those cases because it seems so me to recreate almost perfectly the sort of underlit English parlour effect.
    I also used it once in a production of "The Boyfriend" where the Director and the set and costume designer wanted each scene to start as a tableau that looked like a sepia tone photograph. We played tricks with a gauze reveal painted like a photo frame opening onto the scenes. I used a Chocolate wash for that because I couldn't quite get the effect we all were looking for with anything else.
    I also agree with jmabray, there seems to be a certain quality about the warmth that is different from everything else.
    This probably comes down to something we did discuss once before about favourite colours. As designers we all have colours we like to use, others either don't like them or are neutral to them or even simply can't see why you use them but each to his own.
    And in the end it doesn't always come down to the numbers. Colour temp and transmission rates don't tell the whole story for me anyway.
     
  8. phil000

    phil000 Active Member

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    I'm with you on this one derek, I really dislike it. it's just bleh, I used it once, and once was more than enough.
     
  9. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

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    Well that's the key then. Chocolate gel doesn't work in Ohio, but is okay everywhere else.:rolleyes:
     
  10. gafftapegreenia

    gafftapegreenia CBMod CB Mods

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    First 1/3 CTB, now Chocolate, Derek is going to disown me...

    However, I'm sorry Derek, but I'm of the persuasion that likes R99. There is a unique look about Chocolate that like. I find it very similar to the Bastard Amber, but with less green. However, it's not like a worship the stuff and use it every show, but rather find that it fits a certain need. That's what I like most about it, it has a softer effect that has that sepia tone. Not perfect for every use, no, but gives a sort of "old school incandescent" feel, so it's better for scenes that don't need to be bright-bright.

    I've always understood Chocolate to be an Amber of sorts, very close to R3405 Roscosun 85N.3. Regardless is it an old color. Now wether or not we can use film gels in theatre is a whole new debate.
     
  11. TimMiller

    TimMiller Well-Known Member

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    Honestly the cool thing about theatre and esp lighting, you are the artist. You have a very large color pallette of gels. You can use this to help paint the scene and the feel that you want everyone to feel. If you need the color that happens to fall under film gel for your production go for it. I actually speced some rosco euro gels for a show i did several years ago. I liked the color. I also like gam's new colors they came out with. I keep Rosco, Gam, Lee, and Apollo gel books and gels stocked for a reason. Each one has a slightly different color and sometimes one companys bastard amber doesnt fit so maybe fatherless child will... And yes, fatherless child (apollo) is slightly different than bastard amber...
     
  12. tgates

    tgates Member

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    Re: Trying to get old light board to work

    You know it's funny, the owner at our shop went through and cleared out a bunch of gels out of the cabinet he didn't want, one of them was a big pile of R3406, which looks like an even darker R99. We just got it up this afternoon (along with a few other gels, yes I know those aren't the proper names, but I didn't have a chance to look them all up). We had them left over from when a client didn't believe us that you can't really judge a color of gel by the color on the web page...

    Anyway, i doubt they will go for very much, and since it's relatively on topic, i thought I might post the link. Maybe someone here can pick them up for a steal? ;)

    http://cgi.ebay.com/25-Rosco-3406-a...ryZ29944QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 30, 2008
  13. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

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    Thank you, tgates! You've just helped my prove my point. All chocolate gel is CTO combined with Neutral Density. So for all you chocolate lovers out there, here's your one chance to buy 25 sheets of the crap, double-R99, Dark Chocolate , or officially "RoscoSun 85N.6" at a huge discount. This color is normally used not in a fixture, but applied to exterior windows when shooting film/video to
    1) change the color temperature of the daylight coming through to 3200K, and
    2) reduce the intensity of the light.
    Isn't that what I said chocolate was in my first post? Warm it up and dim it down?

    Start bidding, I want to see who pays ABOVE retail for this very special auction item lot. Methinks, tgates saw the thread about the "antique" PAR56 can and decided to get rich quick selling color media on ebay!

    Chocolate gel lovers, put your money where your mouth is and grab this incredible deal. The only question now is whether the "Special Dark Chocolate" is bitter-sweet or semi-sweet.
     
  14. TimMiller

    TimMiller Well-Known Member

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    Ironically I am specing chocolate gel for one of our upcoming shows. It is taking place in rennissance and from what i am told we want a black and white kind of feel. So i'm going to go with a sepa tone. We shall see how it works out.
     
  15. Kelite

    Kelite Apollo Staff Premium Member

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    Sounds cool Tim. Please don't forget to post a few pictures when finished!
     
  16. gafftapegreenia

    gafftapegreenia CBMod CB Mods

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    Alright Derek, so what mix of amber gel, I mean, plastic color media, and ND = Chocolate.

    And while on the topic of combo gels, no one's ever had a problem with the RGB cyc frosts or colored cyc silks. What about all those crazy LEE colored frosts? Derek you're a LEE person. Why pick on chocolate?
     
  17. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

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    I'm not picking on it, I just don't understand it.

    If my arithmetic is correct, I believe you'll find R3407 (Full CTO) + R97 (o.3ND) = R99, or comes very close.

    In English, L204 + L210 = L156.

    With apologies to GAM and AP.

    As for color and frost together, saves time and money, I fully approve. But no one makes an L202+R132 combo, which is the most common in my world, and that would be like a dog/cat hybrid anyway.
     
  18. gafftapegreenia

    gafftapegreenia CBMod CB Mods

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    Ok ok. Now for this matter of mixing gels from different companies? How can we make that work?
     
  19. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

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    Technically, we're not mixing gels, we're mixing color and diffusion media. I've found that Lee and any frost will turn the color of the frost whatever the Lee color is, especially deep colors.
     
  20. Grog12

    Grog12 CBMod CB Mods Premium Member

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    Don't worry D...I'm with you on the dislike of chocolate.
     

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