Choosing paint colors for a filmed production?

bean161

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Hello everyone!

I am the set designer for a production that is being filmed instead of performed live due to COVID restrictions. I'm planning on painting part of the set a really dark green or blue, and after an incident last year in which we ended up with a BRIGHT blue floor, I am really concerned about choosing a color that will look good both with the wash and on film.

I tested out a bunch of colors with the wash tonight, and all of them looked great, but when we took photos from different angles with a DSLR, they were totally different based on where the camera was. Because we're not shooting straight on, I'm not entirely sure how to approach this. I don't have any film experience, so this is totally out of my comfort zone.

Does anyone have any advice on how to deal with this? Alternatively, if anyone has any idea about the color rendering index of source 4s, that'd be much appreciated.

Thanks!
 
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Hello everyone!

I am the set designer for a production that is being filmed instead of performed live due to COVID restrictions. I'm planning on painting part of the set a really dark green or blue, and after an incident last year in which we ended up with a BRIGHT blue floor, I am really concerned about choosing a color that will look good both with the wash and on film.

I tested out a bunch of colors with the wash tonight, and all of them looked great, but when we took photos from different angles with a DSLR, they were totally different based on where the camera was. Because we're not shooting straight on, I'm not entirely sure how to approach this. I don't have any film experience, so this is totally out of my comfort zone.

Does anyone have any advice on how to deal with this? Alternatively, if anyone has any idea about the color rendering index of source 4s, that'd be much appreciated.

Thanks!
Query (To get this started and open the flood gates): Filmed (Chemicals / actual "film") Vs. DSLR / Light sensors which may, or may not, see colors similarly to our human eyes? @JonCarter @TimMc Care to chime in?
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
 
We're filmed with modern filming equipment in color (thank god) with minimal color correcting done in post. I also don't think we're using any sort of LED filming lights. I talked briefly with my father (who's a photographer), who suggested the lighting settings on the camera might not matter much because the wash is so bright.

Thanks for the quick reply!
 
@RonHebbard Having just spent an elightening 2 hour Zoom webinar with a color matching expert, I know that I'm qualified to offer a link:


I'd bet that Industrial Light and Magic has a bunch of color research online, too, but I didn't look there...

@bean161 Among other things, the sensors in your camera or phone are not calibrated devices and their performance is not identical to human vision - not by a long shot.
 
You keep saying "film" and "filmed." IF this is REAL FILM: paint some samples, light them (with the correct color balance for the film stock you're using), do some test shots which include a grey card, grey scale and color patches, process the tests, print the tests, timed so that the grey card is 18% grey and the grey scale shows all steps, and project the test prints with the light source to be used for projection, either arc or incandescent. And you might want to try the same thing with costumes. (It's been done this way for 90 years and usually produces the desired result.)

Now, if you're talking VIDEO, I'll leave this to the video guys.
 
I am the set designer for a production that is being filmed instead of performed live due to COVID restrictions. I'm planning on painting part of the set a really dark green or blue, and after an incident last year in which we ended up with a BRIGHT blue floor, I am really concerned about choosing a color that will look good both with the wash and on film.

I tested out a bunch of colors with the wash tonight, and all of them looked great, but when we took photos from different angles with a DSLR, they were totally different based on where the camera was. Because we're not shooting straight on, I'm not entirely sure how to approach this. I don't have any film experience, so this is totally out of my comfort zone.

If there's no live audience, what does it really matter whether or not the color looks good in person with the wash, so long as it looks good on video (or film, on the off chance you're actually dealing with photographic emulsions rather than digital imaging)? If your only audience is through the camera, then it seems to me you only need to be concerned with making it look good on camera, and everything else matters about as much as the beauty of the back side of a flat.

Your variations in your test shots could be due to a bunch of things. If you're letting the camera (or RAW file development software) try to suss out white balance on its own, for instance, it's very likely to have a rather hard time of it and produce notably different hues from different vantage points or under different lighting looks. Likewise, if you have too much dynamic range (i.e. contrast of light and dark) in the scene, and the highlights are blown out, you of necessity lose any color information in the highlights, just as you lose timbre in audio that is clipping and distorting.

It would seem wise to me to be involving your video people earlier rather than later to get the sort of look you want. I'm not really a competent video person, so can't provide too much in the way of help there. I am merely a teensy bit of a photography hobbyist, one who's taken a few pictures with a DSLR.
 
@JohnCarter Apologies for the confusion - we are using modern video equipment (I checked with the DP and we're filming primarily with a canon EOSr and a canon t7i). I'm VERY clearly out of my element here.

@DrewE Thanks for the insight! I am going to test this weekend with video, instead of just still photographs, and hopefully with our DP instead of just myself and the SM. I will make sure to check all the settings before testing colors.
 
My wife is a scenic for movies. They do not use any special paint. Basic Benjamin Moore, Rosco for certain colors, etc....

Key is contrast and lighting. Dark walls will not be seen by the camera and I would certainly be having the LD be specifically adding wall wash fixture to allow the intensity and overall contrast to be controlled.

As note, can we assume you are video recording ?. as opposed to actual film ?. Different beasts.
 
Yes, yes, it is your phone "helping" you get the "best" picture possible.

Because most gimboids with a phone don't want to know how things work, it has picked different white balances and gamuts based on pre-set algorhythms that evaluate scene content and adjust.

If you can establish what WB and gamut the DP is using and you can (usually) program your phone to those settings and "de-auto" it, then you can get repeatable results.

I have some presets on my phone just for this purpose. Both for video and (as best it can) for a few key emulsions.

Most modern DSLRs have a gamut range that is capable of being outside SMPTE parameters for broadcast/projection (if that is the goal..), so be careful choosing super-saturated paints.

Especially at the extents of the spectrum like oranges and lower frequencies and magentas and higher frequencies.

Its why blue screen was popular before green screen. Those higher frequencies used to be easier to filter... (and generally less prevalent in costumes etc.).

With modern tech literally any color can cut adequately if it is saturated enough....

Waidaminit... diversion... sorry.
 
Yes! We are DEFINITELY using flat paint.

I think we've actually solved our problem - what we ended up doing was exactly what you guys suggested: sitting down with the LD and DP and taking a quick video of each of the color swatches under the correct lighting and camera settings.

Now I just need to choose the color - I'll keep in mind the saturation when choosing color. Thanks everyone for all of your help!!!
 
Now that the set is done, I wanted to give y'all an update of what it looks like. The color I initially chose ended up being a bit bright in large quantities, as did our first few attempts applying the pattern. You can see below our first attempt with the stencil: tracing and then painting with gold, which worked but was time consuming because of how thin the gold paint was. Our second attempt was to roll the stencil with paint, which worked but was overwhelmingly gold.
IMG_9605.jpeg

We ended up painting all the railings gold, and then buying a quart of green paint that was the shade darker than the original green. The first few applications were a bit rough, but we ended up getting the hang of it, and myself and another member of build crew went back in and fixed all of the messed up lines. Finished look below: (you can see that we had not fully fixed the lines on the SR side of the set.
IMG_9638.jpeg

I'm incredibly pleased with it so I wanted to share, thanks everyone again for all of your help!
 

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