Design CHURCH Stage & Light Power RENOVATION

revsax

Member
Goal: Updating our main stage AC/Lighting design to be more efficient while meeting electrical code. I am looking for general suggestions as to best practices to achieve that goal (i.e. adding floor pockets, type of connections, best general practices)

Current Design: We are a church whose building is less than 10 years old and was rigged originally with all Source Four Ellipsoidals (575W ERS) on LIGHT or CURTAIN bars in the Stage House as well as in the rear house Catwalk. All were hardwired to Dimmers and the stage floor was designed to be "CLEAN" (NO floor pockets with AC, Audio, or Stage Fixture Connections). All current Light Fixtures have Edison AC connectors. Stage dimension is roughly 100' x 50' with curtains creating roughly a 60' x 38' useable stage space. We have 4 TwistLock 20A dimmable circuits located on the rear stage wall (duplicated UL & UR @50' from front of stage). There are also (4) Isolated Ground 20A QUAD wall boxes (6 circuits total) spread evenly across the rear stage that were designed for BAND AC drops with 20' & 35' portable Quad metal boxes.

Current Light Fixtures: We were fortunate enough to receive over 400 ERS's to get us off the ground for Theatrical Lighting with 76 channels of Theatrical Dimming. They were our ONLY source of lighting at open along with (16) PAR cans that were floor lighting options. We have since added (40) LED cans--1W & 3W, (16) PAR38 cans, (8) Source Four PAR-750W, (4) 1000W blinders, as well as (6) Technobeam movers. ALL Light Fixtures have (or have been changed to) standard EDISON connectors.

Lighting Questions: We need to install multiple Stage Pockets in floor--is there a maximum distance from fixture? Is it necessary to convert our current light fixture's connectors to 2P&G, Twistlock, or even PowerCon (space efficient) to connect to stage pockets? Can you use different connector on each end (i.e. male 2P&G on one end and Female Edison on other)? Must all wire be SOOW? Can extension cords be used with low power LED's to non-dimmable AC?

Band AC Questions: We will likely need to add standard BAND AC in the additional floor pockets to avoid long runs to back wall--is there a maximum distance cord run for standard equipment like keyboards, guitar amps, etc.? Are the metal QUAD boxes code-compliant?
 
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Hi there, First of all: welcome to Controlbooth! Also, where in Indiana are you located?


Depending on your location, I would give IndyStage a call. They deal with installation and upgrades daily, and AFAIK, they are one of the only ETC dealers in town (if you plan on going ETC that is)

What kind of power do you have in your building (3 phase Wye, Single Phase)? Do you want to upgrade dimming capacity as well?

Also, 100'x50' seems awfully large, even for a church.
 
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Part of your answer will be how is the space defined in your original construction permits. This will show on your as build blue prints. A church alter has different codes than a Theatrical stage with the local authorities. For example they will treat extension cords different on a stage vs alter platform. As for Edison vs 2pg or twist it does not matter code wise, load and wire size will.

Consider where you place the floor pockets. If you put a podium or stairs DC, don't put a floor pocket DC, move it off center. Line up floor pockets off stage near or under your leg curtains.

And off course make sure they are flush.
 
Thanks for the reply & tips Robersim. We are 3-phase and yes, our stage is HUGE! We are located in Kokomo. It's a large building and the designer was a very forward-thinking "what if you wanna do this" kind of guy who hailed from Willow Creek in Chicago. I think our side screens are @ 19' x 35' and we frequently add an identical 3rd screen in the middle with secondary images/videos, etc.

We dealt with TC Furlong in Chicago on the original install and I have a call into them as well. We have rented from Indy Stage on occasion, but I have not contacted them yet. I'm not sure we will expand dimming capacity. We have 76 channels available and have scaled back from the original "4 per spot" ERS's and eliminated some of the "above stage" ERS's to gain some floor dimming capacity. We just have issues getting safe power to all those floor locations that we like to use now (LED's, ERS's, Technobeams) without dangerous extension cords strewn about.
 
Thanks for the reply lwinters630...

The classification thing is a very interesting point--I will find out. I'm assuming we would be classified as a Theatrical Stage instead of a platform, since our stage / stage house looks very much like a Theater without a Proscenium (expansive black stage with small stairs on the extreme DL & DR). We do have a separate front thrust that is 4" lower than the main stage. It's the front 15' x 50'-ish of the stage with stairs on each side.

Good to know about the type of connectors. I know 2PG is a big Theater standard, but the PowerCon is very appealing from a Stage Pocket space saving design. It looks like some of the newer LED fixtures are coming with PowerCon now. I envision a wall of varying length Edison female-to-PowerCon AC cables or PC-to-PC if newer fixtures are going that way. That is where our next wave of lighting dollars will go after the renovation... newer LED's. We have some low end models that are troublesome and many are 1W versions.
 
The powercon issue is simple. It is not a listed, approved connector for installed outlet applications. Go search the forums for the code debate if you are interested, Steve Terry weighed in with the specifics and well since he sits on the committee that write the code, I think he might have some clue on what the code says ;)
 
Concerning the band power, if you are talking about the standard quad box (aka 1900 box) with the knockouts on all sides, they can be very dangerous. The standard for the touring industry is something like the O.A. Windsor box:
O.A. Windsor
You might also consider a stage stringer, one cable with multiple boxes spaced along it. This really helps clean up the stage. Windsor has both one circuit and three circuit stringers. Lex products also make stringers.
PowerFLEX™ Cable Assemblies | Lex Products
Since your conventional lighting is now Edison, it would be hard to justify changing it to 2P&G. Is your dimmer system hardwired to raceways? One good thing about using two different types of connectors is that the connector defines the power source, 2P&G for dimmed power, and Edison or other for constant current as used by movers and LED units.
 
Lots of good discussion and debate in the threads http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting-electrics/30290-etc-thrupower-system-design.html and http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting-electrics/31385-powercon.html .

Stage pin (2P&G) for all dimmed or potentially-dimmable circuits.
NEMA 5-15 (Edison) for all else.
NEMA 5-15 or 5-20 only if you absolutely must.
L6-20 for 190-240V (208V) capable or required luminaire s.
L21-30 for portable power locations.
PowerCon only for inter-fixture interconnects.
 

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