Clear-Com vs. Walkie Talkies

[Primo109]

Hi,
The theatre I work at is considering purchasing/installing a form of communication for our crew. I was wondering about the pros and cons of installing a ClearCom system over using walkie talkies and vice versa. Which is the cheapest option? Which would be the best option for a school? Thanks in advance.

 

[zmb]

Walkie Talkies are the far cheaper choice, in exchange for something that can have interference issues, have limited range based on your building's construction, and potential clarity issues.
Issue with ClearCom or any other wired system is initially pulling the wire everywhere that you might want to have a headset, and that adding another beltpack isn't cheap.
ClearCom, Telex, or one of the other headset brands is what you're going to want. Don't bother with two channels in a school, haven't ever seen both channels be used and the 6-pin XLR cable required is much more expensive and harder to find than microphone cable.

 

[SteveB]

Walkie Talkies are the far cheaper choice, in exchange for something that can have interference issues, have limited range based on your building's construction, and potential clarity issues.
Issue with ClearCom or any other wired system is initially pulling the wire everywhere that you might want to have a headset, and that adding another beltpack isn't cheap.
ClearCom, Telex, or one of the other headset brands is what you're going to want. Don't bother with two channels in a school, haven't ever seen both channels be used and the 6-pin XLR cable required is much more expensive and harder to find than microphone cable.

Not all dual channel systems require 6 pin. We've used the Telex RTS line for many years. Dual channel on 3 pin audio cable. The beltpacks are not cheap but have all kinds of useful features, like remote mic. kill, set to single channel (for when the house crew want's to say nasty things about the visiting company on Ch. 2 without the company SM listening), etc....

http://www.rtsintercoms.com/us/rts/products/Wired_Partyline_Intercom/172

 

[zmb]

Not all dual channel systems require 6 pin. We've used the Telex RTS line for many years. Dual channel on 3 pin audio cable. The beltpacks are not cheap but have all kinds of useful features, like remote mic. kill, set to single channel (for when the house crew want's to say nasty things about the visiting company on Ch. 2 without the company SM listening), etc....

http://www.rtsintercoms.com/us/rts/products/Wired_Partyline_Intercom/172

Thanks for sharing. The only intercom variants I've seen route the two channels over one 6-conductor cable or have separate A and B connections at each wall plate.

 

[rsmentele]

I've worked in professional theater situations that used walkie talkies, and they were by far the biggest issue we had with communication. I will ALWAYS take dedicated com over walkie talkies. Wired systems may cost more initially, but they will prove to be more robust, and useful over time. Wired belt-packs will last quite a while and if broken, can usually be repaired cheaply. Also, if in the future you find the theater needs a couple wireless channels you can interface most all brands to an existing three wire system. If you are concerned about running cable, in the short term, you could use a channel off of the already installed snake from an analog console, provided you have one of course. Simple Clear- Com power stations can be had for cheap-- a PK 7 CC power supply is all you need for a simple system and add a few RS601 belt-packs and CC40 headsets, and you are good to go.

 

[museav]

"Walkie talkies" could mean inexpensive unlicensed FRS type systems or more expensive licensed business type systems or several other variations so aspects such as licensing, interference, privacy, range and so on may depend on exactly what it is you are addressing.

Many 'walkie talkies' are also simplex operation where only one person can speak at a time. If someone inadvertently leaves their talk button depressed that could prevent any other communications. You may also have to wait until any other communication has stopped to say something, not always the best situtation if you can't control others communicating and what you have to say is time sensitive or important.

FWIW, you can use two standard mic/line level audio cables with the two channel, six pin connectors. You can also have a two channel system but only one of the two channels at each location, for example you might have one channel for front of house and one for back of house so that the SM could communicate with one or both areas at a time.

 

[TheaterEd]

I would be very hesitant to recommend walkie talkies for theatrical use. If you are flat broke, then go for it I guess, but if you can get the funding it is worth it to invest in a clear-com system. What I like most about it is that it works. It is consistent and reliable. One less thing to go wrong during a show.

 

[SteveB]

No way on radios as a replacement for a Clear-com type system. I would not wanting to hit "push to talk" every time I need to talk. That would be unacceptable. As well you can't have multiple people talking at the same time, so the stomping on a conversation would make this an impossible solution for running a show.


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[Lextech]

Clearcom is a very good investment. They don't need batteries, unless you can afford wireless, and more importantly you can use both hands when running a board, lineset or spotlight.

 

[MikeJ]

Walkie Talkies are for families on vacations, and boy scouts hiking. Radios like CP200's or better are fantastic for communication throughout a workday. Calling focus, asking someone to send riggers to the grid, nagging the production guy, telling everyone catering is up, loading trucks, etc. They are terrible for calling a show, only one person can talk at a time, and if someone presses the talk button at the same time, it can stomp the other person, and everyone could miss a cue.

Intercom Is generally a party line, where everyone can hear and talk at the same time, many offer 2 channels over standard 3-pin(actually many more channels with digital systems).

Look into "Professional Intercom", they are the new recreation of formerly "production intercom." Good products, good prices, and it is compatible with Clear-Com as well. I would go with PI or clearcom over telex.

 

[tweeter103]

Hi,
The theatre I work at is considering purchasing/installing a form of communication for our crew. I was wondering about the pros and cons of installing a ClearCom system over using walkie talkies and vice versa. Which is the cheapest option? Which would be the best option for a school? Thanks in advance.

As already mentioned Walkie Talkies are "Simplex" only one can talk at a time. Commercial 2 way radios MAY be 'half duplex' ie a transmit and a recieve frequency, but now you have added a base station, no longer are you in the "walkie talke" price region. A stage communication system MUST be full duplex, ie everyone can talk at once, (imagine a follow spot operator trying to juggle the spot and press a 'transmit' button to confirm a cue) thus go with a Clear-Com system, if you really need wireless, then add a Clear-Com wireless system, they are also full duplex, but MANY times the price of a wired station. Don't consider a 'voice activated' walkie talkie, as soon as a show gets loud, one unit latches on and stays on (preventing anyone else form talking) until the show goes quiet.

 

[len]

When people say "walkie-talkie" are you thinking of the toys that radio shack sells, or are you thinking of two-way production radios like these? http://www.twowayradiosfor.com/two-way-radios/two-way-radios/two-way-radios-for-film-tv-production/

Personally, I think they both have their place. Clear com has its place in a venue, especially for run. But for people who have to move around a lot (during load ins, focus, rehearsal, etc.) a radio is a more flexible choice.

 

[tweeter103]

Yes, Walkie Talkies are the toys that radio shack sell, the earlier references to Walkie Talkies refer to "cheap" and yes, they are cheaper than a waired Clear-Com. In my post I also referred to "Commercial 2 way radios" and yes that's another name for what you are calling two-way production radios. But no way are they cheaper than a wired Clear-Com, and still simplex, or half-Duplex at best if you also have a repeater, Commercial two-way (production) radios, Motorola 338 etc, either transmit OR receive but not both at once. It's not until you get into a:
http://www.clearcom.com/product/wireless/tempest2400
http://www.clearcom.com/product/wireless/hme-dx210
http://www.clearcom.com/product/wireless/cellcom
that you get into FULL Duplex, ie everyone can talk at once, and hear at once.
Commercial two-ways have other advantages, city wide coverage if you have an appropriate repeater, for example.

 

[Jay Ashworth]

Note also that traditional communications grade HTs are expecting an 80-10-10, or somethings 90-5-5 duty cycle; if you tried to run them full time, you probably wouldn't get a whole 3 hour production block out of one battery, even if you sorted out "everyone receives on channel one, and transmits on their own channel", and had a multi-input repeater as professional wireless PL does.

 

[kevlar557]

In regards to the 6-pin/3-pin discussion, The newer clearcoms use 6-pin XLR, however only 4 pins are connected. The pins are CH A audio, CH B audio, voltage, ground. The extra 2 pins were for program audio, but the newer devices integrate this into the party-line.

Back to the issue at hand, would you be able to run wiring to each location where you would need comms? The pro comm wireless will probably be too much for most schools to afford, even the cheap stuff can run almost $1k per beltpack. Info on budget and the venue would go a long way.

 

[artable]

I currently have a clear-com two channel wired system in my HS. And I wouldn't trade it for 'talkies any day. I do wish It had some wireless capability though.

 

[de27192]

I use both, every day. They're different things with different purposes.

You want to leave comms 'open' for show critical stuff, so cues can always be called and anything urgent that needs to be reported can be done so (IE flys spotting obstructions, LD noticing a mover going beserk, whatever). So therefore, in my place, we go with clearcom for the key show personnel to call instructions and cues - this will be SM/DSM; Lx Op, Sound Op, Flyman, etc. Then their sub-crew (IE the stage crew, LX crew, sound crew etc) on walkie talkies - as those have loads of channels and it's easy to keep talk separate.

So for instance if a mover went beserk, the SM might see it, call it on clearcom to the Lx Op, who can then jump on LX radio channel and ask one of the LX crew to sort it on stage.

Most wireless comms work on the wifi band which can be harder to properly distribute around the theatre, whilst a radio signal can be very easily and very cheaply repeated all over a building.

 

[Jay Ashworth]

Most professional theatre/tv class wireless headsets work in the same bands as wireless mics do, not in the 900 or 2.4G bands. Since they are full-duplex, they're also not repeater-capable.

 

[de27192]

Most professional theatre/tv class wireless headsets work in the same bands as wireless mics do, not in the 900 or 2.4G bands. Since they are full-duplex, they're also not repeater-capable.

This thread was asking specifically about ClearCom and the vast majority of wireless ClearCom works in the 2.4GHz band. But yes some of their very high end kit does work in the UHF band shared by wireless mics.

http://www.clearcom.com/product/wireless

As you say not repeater capable, but they are essentially running with a LAN; so providing the building is wired with Ethernet capability, most Clearcom systems can be distributed around the theatre using that infrastructure.

 

[Jay Ashworth]

Ah; I had missed that was how the CCs worked. Sorry.