color extenders

gafftaper

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So I've never had the luxury of being able to afford color extenders before... although I've certainly had times I could use them. Do I want them 3" long or 5" long?

EDIT: and while I'm at it... Am I going to need many top hats in a Black Box? I'm thinking that they are going to be fairly limited use... since the lights are all hanging where the audience can see them anyway. 3" Long or 5" Long top hats?
 
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Van

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I know nothig about color extenders, however I can tell you that tophats can come in extremely handy at time, especially in a blackbox. Although the audience can see all the fixtures, that doesn't mean they should be staring into the beam all the time. Our space is notorious for blinding the first row of the side seating areas, as our playing space is slightly wider than it is deep. Several of our designers have found that using tophats, on the back/side lights for mid stage areas helps alleviate this problem. I believe we have all 5"ers, but I bet even a 3 could come in handy.
 

gafftaper

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I know nothig about color extenders, however I can tell you that tophats can come in extremely handy at time, especially in a blackbox. Although the audience can see all the fixtures, that doesn't mean they should be staring into the beam all the time. Our space is notorious for blinding the first row of the side seating areas, as our playing space is slightly wider than it is deep. Several of our designers have found that using tophats, on the back/side lights for mid stage areas helps alleviate this problem. I believe we have all 5"ers, but I bet even a 3 could come in handy.
That's exactly the kind of insight I was looking for and hadn't thought of. The old man comes through!
 

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Top hats are great things to have around, especially in the world of ETC putting the lense right at the end of the unit and making it spill all over the place. I have been known to make 12" blackwrap tophats for S4 pars before...
 

Van

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That's exactly the kind of insight I was looking for and hadn't thought of. The old man comes through!
I'm not an old man, I just feel like one all the time......
 

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SteveB

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They are helpful when you have a fixture whose color is frying (L119, L116, etc...). I encounter this with all my S4 Zooms, the occasional 360Q 6x9, etc.. Thus every one of my S4's has a C/F Xtndr in the 3" length - so as to keep as much beam spread as possible when zoomed out. I also keep a dozen in the 6" length for other occasions. Faster then removing-the-gel-from-the-frame-taping-the-gel-onto-the -top hat routine.

SB
 

Grog12

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I know nothig about color extenders, however I can tell you that tophats can come in extremely handy at time, especially in a blackbox. Although the audience can see all the fixtures, that doesn't mean they should be staring into the beam all the time. Our space is notorious for blinding the first row of the side seating areas, as our playing space is slightly wider than it is deep. Several of our designers have found that using tophats, on the back/side lights for mid stage areas helps alleviate this problem. I believe we have all 5"ers, but I bet even a 3 could come in handy.
Completley agreed...especially on wash units...have tophats.

Color extenders....I'm not as married to..they are nice...but are more useful when you have a show running longer than 2 weeks.
 

BrentSmith

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If you are trying to avoid glare and light leaks, then yes, you probably need tophats. But if, as you said, you really need color extenders, and you need to know what size, think about this: I have heard that of fixed degree S4's, the 36's (and probably 6x9's) are most likely to burn gel because the focal point is closest to the plane of the gel frame. If you are burning more gel than the cost of color extenders, take note of the types of units causing the problem. Then calculate where the focal points of those units are and choose the extender size that will put the gel farthest from those points.
 

gafftaper

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To maximize your storage space between use, have a look at the ORIGINAL Tapered Top Hats from Apollo. Fitting fixtures from Lekos to PAR cans, the inner portion is flocked to avoid glare, and can be used with a strategicaly placed gel over the end...
http://www.internetapollo.com/Products/ProductLine.aspx?pl_id=52
I'm definitely specifying tapered top hats... as for if they end up Apollo or the other guys... being the original isn't a difference the state will let me specify. If you've got some specifiable functional or design differences between your product and the other guys Keith let me know. Otherwise it'll be left up to which product a bidding dealer can cut me the best deal.
 

gafftaper

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Ok, I'm a little slow here... but I have now figured out that if I put a color extender on my Source Fours I don't need top hats. DUH! For my black box, the top hats would probably be best used on wash lights that don't have barn doors.

Again, I've always worked in high schools that didn't have the couple thousand dollars to spare on top hats or extenders. I've burned a lot of gel and used a lot of black wrap.
 

Grog12

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Typically 36's/ 6x9's are what burn through color the quickest...especially if they aren't properly optimized...and doubly if its a saturated color.

With all knew eq that you're getting I think you're kind of half a dozen to one six to the other on whether you need them. IMHO.
 

gafftaper

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Ok let's try this for fun...

My future space: 55 foot square Black Box with an 18' high grid.

My future inventory:
48 S4 ERS, 8 with Seachanger Profiles (lens tube collection: [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected])
16 S4 25-50 Zooms
12 Seachanger Wash.
24 S4 PARS
48 6" Fresnels (maybe Selecon Ramas maybe something else)
8 Selecon Pacific 23-50 Zooms for pattern projection

How many Top Hats, Barn Doors, and Color Extenders would YOU buy?

Secondly, as long as it's up there does anyone think I'm making any mistakes in how I've balanced the inventory.
 

SteveB

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Ok let's try this for fun...
My future space: 55 foot square Black Box with an 18' high grid.
My future inventory:
48 S4 ERS, 8 with Seachanger Profiles (lens tube collection: [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected])
16 S4 25-50 Zooms
12 Seachanger Wash.
24 S4 PARS
48 6" Fresnels (maybe Selecon Ramas maybe something else)
8 Selecon Pacific 23-50 Zooms for pattern projection
How many Top Hats, Barn Doors, and Color Extenders would YOU buy?
Secondly, as long as it's up there does anyone think I'm making any mistakes in how I've balanced the inventory.
- Top hats for the fixtures visible to the audience, where the flare will be annoying. This includes ALL units. Your call. Note that a C/F Xtndr puts the gel at the end of the top hat, so while you eliminate burn-out, you can still get flare.

- 3" long C/F Xtndrs for EVERY S4 25/50 Zoom. Trust me. No point putting a H/H on a C/F Xtndr though, just live with it.

- Barn doors for every fresnel. They ain't as useful without one.

- Cannot advise on H/H or C/F Xtndrs for anything else as that's dependent on where you hang the stuff and I have no idea if a B/D works on a Sea Changer wash. They are marginally effective (and thus rarely worth the money) on S4 Pars

SB
 
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icewolf08

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Ok let's try this for fun...
My future space: 55 foot square Black Box with an 18' high grid.
My future inventory:
48 S4 ERS, 8 with Seachanger Profiles (lens tube collection: [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected])
16 S4 25-50 Zooms
12 Seachanger Wash.
24 S4 PARS
48 6" Fresnels (maybe Selecon Ramas maybe something else)
8 Selecon Pacific 23-50 Zooms for pattern projection
How many Top Hats, Barn Doors, and Color Extenders would YOU buy?
Secondly, as long as it's up there does anyone think I'm making any mistakes in how I've balanced the inventory.
Have to agree with SteveB here, get color extenders for all the zooms and barndoors for the fresnels. You might think about barn doors for the S4 Pars and the SEAChanger Washes. I think that you want to have at least half as many top hats or color extenders as you have units will use them on, so for you that would be about 24-30. I suppose, depending on your budget concerns you may just want to get enough for every unit and if you never use them all you have extra for when someone steps on one.
 
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gafftaper

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Ok, so this is what I'm thinking...

I plan to use HPL 575X in all my S4's... except the Seachangers. For a long term budget reasons and because it's such a small place I don't really see the need for more power. I'm looking at typical runs of 6-8 shows. Those factors combined tell me I shouldn't worry as much about gel burn as flare.

So, lets say top hats for all 48 S4 ERS's... including the seachanger profiles. Then add say 12 extenders for the S4's in case I want to use some really heavy saturated gel for a show.

The Seachanger Wash has a barn door adapter which I plan to buy along with barn doors for them.

Got the message about extenders for the zooms. Done.

For the 24 S4 PARs... how about 6 barn doors and call it good.

AND barn doors for all 48 Fresnels.


So as for the length of top hats to purchase for the S4's. Can I use a tall hat with a 36 degree tube? I believe I read somewhere that you need short hats for 50 degree tubes... is that right?
Maybe buy 36 tall hats and 12 short ones?
 

Van

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Don't forget the Pony. Invariably someone will ask for a pony.
:mrgreen:
 

Grog12

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Ok, so this is what I'm thinking...
I plan to use HPL 575X in all my S4's... except the Seachangers. For a long term budget reasons and because it's such a small place I don't really see the need for more power. I'm looking at typical runs of 6-8 shows. Those factors combined tell me I shouldn't worry as much about gel burn as flare.
So, lets say top hats for all 48 S4 ERS's... including the seachanger profiles. Then add say 12 extenders for the S4's in case I want to use some really heavy saturated gel for a show.
The Seachanger Wash has a barn door adapter which I plan to buy along with barn doors for them.
Got the message about extenders for the zooms. Done.
For the 24 S4 PARs... how about 6 barn doors and call it good.
AND barn doors for all 48 Fresnels.
So as for the length of top hats to purchase for the S4's. Can I use a tall hat with a 36 degree tube? I believe I read somewhere that you need short hats for 50 degree tubes... is that right?
Maybe buy 36 tall hats and 12 short ones?
Top hats and barn doors for all the Fresnels. The ones you don't barn door you can throw a top hat on...less work in the long run. Top hats for all the PARs...Color Extenders...meh..if you want too and if you're leaving a show up for longer than a month.

I don't agree on
 

gafftaper

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Short or long top hats for S4 PAR's?

Are long top hats ok for S4 ERS in 50 degree?