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Color scroller question

Discussion in 'Lighting and Electrics' started by n1ist, Apr 8, 2007.

  1. n1ist

    n1ist Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    I just got my hands on some gel scrollers (PanCommand Color Ranger CR-100) but did not get the power supply for them. They have a 4 pin male XLR connector and rotary switches for group number (0-99) and address (1-10)
    Judging from various posts, pin 1 is ground and pin 4 is +24 and it looks like pin 2 is data- and pin 3 is data+, but what format is the data? I applied power to 1 and 4, and it scrolled all the way to one end and homed itself to the start of the first panel, so that seems to be correct. Is the data DMX?
    /mike
     
  2. soundlight

    soundlight Well-Known Member

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    Yup, should be DMX. You need a color scroller power supply and scroller cable for these. You should figure out how much power each scroller requires (watts) so you can get the right power supply.
     
  3. jonhirsh

    jonhirsh Active Member

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    I know you dont want to hear this but i would invest in a power supply.

    JH
     
  4. Jezza

    Jezza Active Member

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    Agreed, trying to go low budget on something like a scroller just doesn't sound like a good idea. As I'm sure you know, those things really like to have "clean" power and the power supply will do all the regulating and data switching for you. I don't know the PanCommands but the powersupply should also give you error data, gel usage time, etc. Good luck.
     
  5. n1ist

    n1ist Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    Well, now I know why I got them so cheap; two are dead, one seems very flaky, and one looks OK. Mechanically, they are fine, so I will probably toss together a small board to take DMX and drive the motor. It's just a micro and an h-bridge... Thanks.
    /mike
     
  6. Lightingguy32

    Lightingguy32 Active Member

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    I am sorry to say but, from my current knowledge this company first of all does not exist any more and second of all is violating the USITT DMX 512 protocol. Very few scroller power supply units actually use pin 4 for +24 since the fact that probably everything else in your theater does not run +24 volts on pin 4 it is highly recommended that you do not use these scrollers or you could actually end up frying your lighting board or dimmers. Other wise make sure that the scroller and your PSU have the same pin config.
     
  7. n1ist

    n1ist Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    Actually, it doesn't violate DMX; the scroller has a 4-pin XLR (like most scrollers and gel rotators) so there's no chance of connecting it straight to a board... The protocol on pins 2 and 3 may be DMX, but the cabling isn't.
     
  8. fredthe

    fredthe Active Member

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    Actually, virtually all scroller power supplies provide +24v on pin 4. This is pretty much the standard.
    -Fred
     
  9. Kelite

    Kelite Apollo Staff Premium Member

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    That is very true. The pinout of Apollo Smart Color scrollers, Chroma Q's, Rainbow scrollers, and the Wybron Forerunner product line all use the same pin configuration as stated earlier-

    Pin 1 Ground
    Pin 2 neg data
    Pin 3 pos data
    Pin 4 Positive 24V DC

    N1st, how are you certain two of the scrollers are 'shot'? Is there an issue with the PC board, or are there other signs of electrical/mechanical failure?
     
  10. n1ist

    n1ist Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    Just my guess based on the smell :) It looks like they want to to draw about 250mA from pin 1 (at 22-24V) which toasts a 4.7 ohm 1/4W resistor in series with pin 4. For that value resistor, it either shouldn't be pulling more than 200mA... I can fix the resistor, but need to trace the circuit a little further before I will power it up again.

    OK, I did a bit of further checking. Just because the plug fits, doesn't mean it should :) This scroller has pin1 as rs485-, pin 2 as rs485+, pin 3 as gnd and pin 4 as +24. There is a clamp on the rs485 that tried to dump the return current thru the 4.7 ohm resistor, which is why it blew. I guess when I first tried it, the negative cliplead must have grounded out to the connector frame which is why that worked (I didn't have any 4-pin XLRs on hand). Now to make a correct cable and see if it will respond to DMX.

    /mike
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2007
  11. wakkoroti

    wakkoroti Member

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    n1ist likes this.
  12. gafftaper

    gafftaper Senior Team Senior Team Fight Leukemia

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    That Looks like a standard DMX power supply that everyone else uses for color scrollers, I-cues, gobo rotators, etc... There are at least a dozen companies out there that make them. Shouldn't be hard to find one at your local theater dealer or on line.

    I think Apollo makes a small one that runs around $125.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2007
  13. fredthe

    fredthe Active Member

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    Actually it doesn't. most scrollers, I-cues, etc put power on pins 1&4, data on pins 2&3. The drawing clearly shows power on 3&4, data on 1&2... hence the problem.

    -Fred
     
  14. Kelite

    Kelite Apollo Staff Premium Member

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    <This scroller has pin1 as rs485-, pin 2 as rs485+, pin 3 as gnd and pin 4 as +24.> THAT would make an Apollo or similar PSU very unhappy...
     
  15. gafftaper

    gafftaper Senior Team Senior Team Fight Leukemia

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    Sorry Fred, Twisting my head sideways to read a PDF with a 3 year old sitting on my lap being crazy sort of through off my game. Yep, looks like you need to purchase a special morpheous version of a power supply.
     
  16. Jezza

    Jezza Active Member

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    Silly question, but instead of hunting around for a weird or specialized power supply, why don't you pull out the XLR jack and rewire it for a "standard" 4-pin PSU? Or if you don't want to mess with the unit internally, just make up some 4-pin jumpers that adapt from the wrong configuration to the correct configuration. Then if you ever want to bring in other scrollers or other 4-pin devices on the same PSU, your set.
     
  17. Kelite

    Kelite Apollo Staff Premium Member

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    <just make up some 4-pin jumpers that adapt from the wrong configuration to the correct configuration. >

    While this could be done, please label the jumpers with bright gaffer tape (I know, wrong thread...) and what these jumpers are. Jerry-rigged components have a tendency to never to away, even when you want them to. While these may be in your care, it's hard to guess where these scrollers and jumpers may wind up down the road.....
     
  18. n1ist

    n1ist Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    Thanks for the pointer to Morpheus; the manual for the ColorFader gave the other tidbit of info - the mapping from group and address to DMX channel. Setting the internal switch to position 5 (ETC Expression) puts it in DMX mode.

    Since I don't have any other scrollers, I will wire up a custom cable going from the 4-pin XLR to two DMX XLRs and a laptop brick for power. I will label it as only for the ColorRangers to avoid smoking anything else :)

    /mike
     
  19. icewolf08

    icewolf08 CBMod CB Mods

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    Before you go butchering a laptop power supply, I think you may be better off with the idea posted earlier about making 4-pin to 4-pin adapters and using a normal scroller PSU. Here is why, scrollers, believe it or not, draw a lot of power. You generally need a PSU that can supply 150W to power 4 or 5 scrollers, and most computer PSU's don't supply that much. Also most scroller PSU's provide opto-isolation between the DMX feed and scroller outputs.

    You really are better off using devices that do what they are designed to do, so, a scroller PSU for scrollers, and a computer PSU for a computer.
     
  20. Footer

    Footer Senior Team Senior Team Premium Member

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    Or in other words, if you blow something up don't come here asking how to fix it. Very expensive consoles and whatever else is on your DMX chain are not any fun to have to send out to repair.
     

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