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Colour / Blind

Discussion in 'Lighting and Electrics' started by iandy, Mar 9, 2008.

  1. iandy

    iandy Member

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    Sorry if this is in the wrong board wasn't sure where to put it.

    Right question open for discussion. First bit about me - I'm 19 planning to go into theatre lighting, im currently working at school in London UK (I see alot of people on here are from America) as a performance technician, working in a 70 seater studio.

    I am colour-blind! To those of you who employ technicians, would this put you off? Do you think Its going to be a waste of time me trying to get into this industry!? What are views on a colour-blind lighting technician / designer?

    Discuss!
     
  2. Footer

    Footer Senior Team Senior Team Premium Member

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    One of my friends who is color blind has toured as head elec with Rent, The Producers, and is now Asst. Head Elec for Cirque's Corteo, so he has done rather well for himself. Another friend is an LD who is also color blind, he usually has someone go over color with him (via youtube videos usually). There is much more to being an LD than color, you have distribution, movement, intensity, just to name a few....
     
  3. dj_illusions

    dj_illusions Active Member

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    I know an LD who is colour blind aswell, he has never really had a problem and you wouldnt know he is colour blind if you watched one of his shows. He works alot more from Gel Numbers and stuff rather than what it looks like... Just like blind musicians really.
     
  4. PadawanGeek

    PadawanGeek Active Member

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    I say go for it!


    don't you mean deaf musicians?
     
  5. Grog12

    Grog12 CBMod CB Mods Premium Member

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    Jules Fisher anyone?
     
  6. iandy

    iandy Member

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    Well I have created my own way of seeing the colour. I mainly use Lee Filters and there broucher is very useful gives a nice discription of the colours. Well I have designed a number of show, and nobody has said anything about them to date!

    Ok now from an electrics point of view, I am unable to go to college here, as part of the application you have to pass a colour blindness test. However seeing the difference in wire colour is more simple for me!
     
  7. Goph704

    Goph704 Active Member

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    You should be able to submit an official request at the college that your intersted in. Ask if they are willing to replace that part of the test with a basic wiring test. I'm not quite sure how that works wheither it is part of a physical exam or if it is part of a national thing, but academics are willing to negotiate on a suprsingly large amount of issues, especilly when it means attending their college. My dad is an Oxford Grad and the stuff they let him get away with was phenominal, especilly considering he was a Yank and All.
    If not, America is not all bad for college, hey, some of us like living here on an almost daily basis. Sure it's a little wacky, what with politics and science,and the idea that we've got a pyrotech displaying in the Gugenhiem, but you get used to stuff like that after awhile. But don't ask me to explain baseball. It's just a great sport.
    As for the color blindness, I learned how to work with Tranzmaission rates before I learened how to say, I want this to be Blue. I came fore omthe school of mixing to natural light and then removing colors to create your effect. It was a little bit harder way to work, as I am not colorblind, but it was incredibly functional and has been far more of a help to me than a drawback. If you can do that, then your already set.

    Good luck, we're rooting for you.
     
  8. porkchop

    porkchop Well-Known Member

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    Really interesting scenario your in, looking at the vast diversity of successful lighting designers I don't see how being color blind in itself could prevent you from succeeding, as has been stated earlier it can be done and it sounds like you're on you way. As far as school goes, I don't know exactly how things work in the UK, but I know in the US if you were going to put someone out for being color blind you would need a **** good reason. If the reason if wiring safety then a demonstration of the ability to properly and safely wire things and a call in to someone with some say in the matter could go a LONG way. I guess to make a point that goes further than "me too me too" take some time and make a few phone calls in the highly politically correct world of today (maybe that's just the US but for once it would work out if that weren't the case) I don't think a school would repeatedly and continually say no if a qualified student just because of something like color blindness. Especially if you can demonstrate the skills necessary to do things safely.
     
  9. Van

    Van CBMod CB Mods Premium Member

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    I've got a friend who is color/colour blind who is a digital model maker. He did the modeling for T2 for the rotoscoping models. He make digital effects for Hollywood everyday. and he's one of the most detailed, colorful artists, in water colors, that I have ever seen. There is no reason you can't go forward in being an LD. Now getting your electrical license might be a different matter. I remember hearing a few things about color blindness and elctrical qualification, but I don't think that it completely excludes you.
     
  10. iandy

    iandy Member

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    Thanks for the opinions people! Seems like I should just come to the USA! Anyone want a room mate haha :) Yeah well I have just applied at RADA again, so see if I get in I will do that, if not im going to try get electrics qualification sorted. I might think of writing to the college though.
     
  11. TimMiller

    TimMiller Well-Known Member

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    It depends on your color blindness. What colors do you have troble deciphering. I once had a color blind electrician plug a blue wire into a ground. But i also had a non color blind tech plug a blue wire into ground. Thats why i usually lable them XYZNG or UVWNG just depends on what colors and voltages your dealing with, on top of the color with tape. In low light conditions it makes colors hard to decipher. I once had an electronic tech teacher tell us to never assume anything. Even color codes. Go by color, but check with a meter. ALWAYS CHECK NEVER ASSUME. One of the best things ive learned so far. If you dont have any problem deciphering the colors in your own mind i wouldnt have a problem with hiring a color blind person.
     
  12. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    Hmm, Color Blind. Nobody sorts gel better - given a bit of extra time to compare and contrast. Or, err, perhaps nobody sorts gel as interesting if in a rush. As a paint mixer in matching up to something that is already determined... give it up - you have a medical condition which might prevent you from fulfilling that task which cannot be held against you. So the white is a shade of green, you tried.

    I have red and green confusion, some color combinations such as with Lego blocks if I look at them even as if phosphor when next to each other, on the other hand some color combinations especially some red and blues will give me a headache. Back in grade school (1970's) when chalk boards were a form of green, there was some colors of red chalk I simply could not see on the chalk board.

    Red and green confusion - while there is forms of it is but one type of color blindness and there is other forms of it - what is yours? (I’m ok your okay, or Hi’ I’m color blind and living with it in a group mutual assurance type of way.) I’m sure you have had that question before otherwise when you stated that condition to others. “Really your color blind? You cannot see any colors? If I hold up this dohinkie, what color is it?”

    For me it’s a kind of lazy color classification in many more abstract color definitions being a more or less shade of grey or brown with tinting. What is Mauve anyway but a dirty red/brown? It is harder to define upon site of its color of it alone what color that is because in some way my color memory in classifying it just does not see more than a form of dirty what ever base. Could be a form of say darker rose say, could be something different. Many colors seen given this sort of filter I kind of gave up in classing colors.

    On the other hand, I know what I like, what pops and pops well with each other. Sure it might not be correct but in a design even if your entire color base is somehow off in some way by way of color; it is a statement and much of what you choose is your statement. This much less what given what is bold or good choice for you is a hugely great choice for others in viewing it on stage. What pops for you will pop for others if at least not in a similar way, sufficient enough.

    So, end result is perhaps, as a designer, color blind designers might not be able to so subtle and accurate do an exact color matching, (kind of know what is right for us if we study it but at times there will be something about it we just cannot see.) But with time and effort we need we often do better on the our design concept in doing so because with study we are looking for more than an exact match, we are looking for some shade, greyness and liveliness that is not otherwise as perceptible in some way. This plus for an original design, it is your choice.

    As a tech person.... no you are probably not the best at mixing paint to match say a photo or choosing a similar gel to a color when in a rush and you run out of that color from one brand. Given time, sure and perhaps to some degree you might excel. Other than that, nothing wrong with your medical condition in having a job in the field and perhaps excelling with other things. Remember also that normally color blind as a definition is mainly centered around some specific colors and not in general for all other than in having been lazy in them for classification. Stuff say in the blue range or green and blue range for a Red and Green person might not be as difficult. Similar perhaps with say amber and red.

    Back in college scenic painting class I was the only one allowed to have others mix my paint for me. Other than that one class and in the field afterwards, red and green confusion has never really come up other than by way of discussion or some subtle color discussion I was not so good with. Nothing about the job persay especially in lighting. Just don’t do the gel other than by the numbers.
     
  13. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    The first statement for me says lazy. What specific color blindness are you and how lazy as I am are you in openly saying you cannot see color normally thus I'll just use the description without developing your own way of seeing color that while it might be different still works for the most part.



    Second statement to me this seems like something lawyers can easily defend your equal opportunity to access to in having a as it were disability. Application for color blindness disqualifying you from education and career? Yep even if you don't get greedy, that could easily pay for your education once you win that lawsuite and I don't expect that even if across the pond it would not easily be won.

    Still the question of just how color blind are you will be a factor and an important one. Not stated is the class of it and extent of it. Sure if everything is a shade of grey that might be a problem in limiting your ability but even if that bad.... nothing worse than being in a wheel chair and attempting to get an eduction in the theater. No, you cannot do everything but there is use and should be no road blocks. I would challenge and fight that. Should you need, I can furnish that from my own experience that should help. Yes Red and Green confusion, yet this did not prevent me from joining and later gaining a E-5 ranking in the U.S. Marines, this much less becoming successful in design and production for lighting and set. Yes my color blindness does not optimize my usefulness in some ways, and the degree to which I was did not keep me out of the military in not being able to see someones say red star on a green helmit, still as a general class of medical disability, it didn't hold me back or should not you. Fight it.

    Remember way back when the doctors that determined I was color blind told me I should not attempt a job at the phone company due to the colored stripes in the wire and somewhat valid if you got into a seriously colored multi-cable type phone cable. That was years before ethernet came out. I do that type of cable a good deal and don't have a problem with say a orange verses brown and or any other colors in getting such wiring right. Do it as part of my living as with phone cable, 16 or even 20 pair sound snake cable that's colored these days. Color blindness as a industry pro doesn't limit my ability, and besides that I test everyting I do. The old concept of doing something mutil-phase just doesn't come up. Yes I can tell the difference between the red and blue wire, much less I can see a green wire next to a red one. Would say a industry pro, it has not held me back.

    But again, that specifically depends upon the degree of colorblindness. I perhaps am not as bad off as someone else. If truely say in the grey range for all color, while you can compensate, perhaps you need someone to overlook your work. On the other hand... no reason not to educate you due to a medical condition... that goes back to locking up those with a medical condition so they cannot expose others. - normal. Take on the schools requirement and win.

    In going into the military there was some fields due to the degree of color blindness I was not able to do such as communiscator.. it did not prevent service to my country overall and I didn't want those fields anyway. In Field Artillery, while yes there is green shells with red triangles as markings which do mean something as designation, what diagnosis I had was not sufficient to prevent me from joining. This for a field where what shell I chose or later as the crew chief in verification of what shell was loaded into the 155mm killing everyone in a 30 yard radious when the shell went down range gun and being yearly tested as to what I was able to do and memorize sufficiently by way of shell/fuse combinations could realistically kill people and had many times before, color blindness never played a factor. I was color blind and ensured in excelling in the miltary every year by way of testing only pilots also get tested on, that such a hamper on what I saw did not kill anyone. This no matter light or dark, I could ensure the proper shell got fired in years of experience with peoples lives depending on that color blindness not playing a factor.

    I say discrimination in your rejection and I am sure the local news paper, much less the local propriator of the law would given famous color blind designers and others pro in the field having successful careers agree that it is an open and shut case that you would win in if qualified otherwise, color blindness should not play a factor in this field of study. This no matter what even degree of colorblindness you have and there is degrees but just as one with a weel chair cannot be a rigger to it's fullest extent, one can still be. One in acquiring a education = just education for lighting while having a much more easy medical condition as color blind should not be blocked from an education.

    Again, need my resume as a professional if needed, and or medical files to back that up... just ask but I expect it won't be needed once you give a shot to the school and education you want and denied. On the other hand, paint by numbers ain't design.... Lee filters have numbers and descriptions but it means nothing to what art is created. You have a job as a designer and it is not paint by numbers. This no matter what disability in seeing things the way everyone else does.

    At the start of such a fight are we absolutely sure that it is not lazy eye color in testing, lazy taking the extra moment to see the letter or number within the dots - even at times while hard seeing it still? This much less given an acceptance of medical condition, laziness in choosing color by the number and description that prevented you from being chosen for the school? Possible in being a serious discussion that you were rejected due to ability or at least choices made and the color blindness more a crutch. Not always easy but for all one must try. Believe me, I have been right on that cutting edge for able to get in or not and understand what is easy or not in this color blind and living with it way of not spending that extra moment to choose and give an extea look even if not easy or what you really can see at times is not easy and even gives you a headache in looking at.

    There is various forms and extents of color blindness and it is a very common condition. Could be extreme but also could be a more laziness I would wish to ensure against before say going to the wall in defending the disability of. Earning ability to go to the school is also a factor no doubt if not rejected specifically and only medically by way of a failed test potentially not as much failed by way of not seeing but not as much taking ones time and trying.

    I have looked at the dot matrex thingies, and perhaps while not as color blind, I also know how easy it would be to say I cannot see something when not as easy without effort. First I would advise attempt the test again, than if really not being able to see the number or something within the dots, go for the disability education in it not being fair to be rejected for school because of it. Stilll with varying degrees of this very broad classification that I would say most people have a form of.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2008
  14. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    by the way, in being sort of an expert on eye testing - I also have something called "dry eyes." Means every year and at times twice a year for like the last 15 years I get some partical of metal in my eye - safety glasses or not, some particle on my hair or what ever flicked into it and it rusts in place. Got to the point that I can given a mirror and a pair of tweezers pluck out a object from my eye ball.

    This following numourous hospital visits where the emergency room people can't detect what is old scarring - numourous ones, from what is fresh and the source of what is not so much these days excruciating pain.

    Got to the point where at work I'm just about at nine years now that after numerous eye injuries, even if a good and useful worker I would have to be let go due to liability reasons. Eye injuries even for those that often will even put on a face mask when wearing safety glasses is nothing to play with when it comes to corporate liability insurance and emergency room visit.

    Have at times plucked that offending silver or particle of metal out of my eye ball in otherwise if left there having to visit the emergency room again. Also having been lucky at one point in while removing a 3/16" x 12" long drill bit, it in being extracted having missed the center of the eye by half an inch when by chance it was ejected by a cordless screw driver and got shot out in hitting and drawing blood in hitting my eye socket - another emergency room visit given low blood pressure also on this morning got me a bit faint and paisly once serviced.

    Expert on drills, yea - very formally trained, safety glasses before now, who will have thunk a 12" long drill bit forcibally ejected from the drill and at a point I was a bit low on blood sugar and pressure. Normal days, I will have simply wiped the blood away etc.

    None the less, dry eyes as a medical condition.... it can also keep you from doing one's career given you very possibly will get injured even if doing everything right more than others simply by way of how well your eye clears debree from it, on how much you end up with how much that debree - just a particle of metal winds up rusting in your eyeball.

    I would say if color blindness is a factor in a career for lighting, given how much debree and or just plain particles of metal are about the stage and industry and life in general is even much more dire to ones insurance coverage. If color blind people can't play because artistically they don't do their jobs just as well, than in a corporate sense, those with what is called dry eyes should also be denied a career in this field also and I need to become a paper pusher perhaps at a bank.

    Given this, it it a good thing in changing careers that I have college and can as opposed to winding up as a gas station attendant. Hmm, bank teller or gas station attendant for pay rate...

    Still its' a condition I have in addittion to being color blind. For this at least I have to use special protection so as not to have it effect my career in it being vaid to fire me for cronically injured on the jobsite. For a color blind person on the other hand, nothing similar.

    Dry eyes in something that the next morning you won't be able to work, much less will hut so much you need a hospital and cannot work for days later. This verses color blindness... humm screw up a gel choice and who notes it if you tried and you do need to try harder perhaps. Try harder in both cases but that's life. Neither should you be held back, it effect you in your job performance in holding you back, or given effort on your part should it hold you back.

    Be glad you don't have dry eyes and only are color blind in some way. Can't convey how much some rusted scrap of metal in the eye ball hurts - at least the first few times. Just annoying afterwards and after a few times later. Yep it is there yet you can deal with it in senses being dulled to the point you can pluck it out of your own eye.

    Something like that perhaps as a steel worker as primary field would possibly be bad. Color blind as designer.... ha. lepracy.
     

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