Compact fluorescent house lights

Retro fitting to incandescent fixtures might not be possible with out adding addtional circuits to the system. Just something to be on the look out for.

A very good point here, as the flourescent circuits may well not have the required capacity to handle the (larger) incandescent loads.

Oi !, what a mess, glad I'm not in your shoes.

Well I was once back in '04 when we renovated. But I was lucky to be onsite the entire time and got the worst of the mistakes changed in time.

Best of luck with it

Steve B.
 
A very good point here, as the flourescent circuits may well not have the required capacity to handle the (larger) incandescent loads.
Oi !, what a mess, glad I'm not in your shoes.
Well I was once back in '04 when we renovated. But I was lucky to be onsite the entire time and got the worst of the mistakes changed in time.
Best of luck with it
Steve B.

I think there are 8 2.4k dimmers running the house lights.
 
Call the architect and ask to see their copy of the electrical contractor's submittals...etc

I've taken all this information and turned it over to the Facilities department to find out what's wrong. Although the building is in use, the contractor hasn't been finally released from the project yet so there are lots of people running around dealing with punch lists. I'm told it's just a matter of time until they sort out what happened.
 
So gafftaper, charcoaldabs, which of the Advance Mark X™ (Philips Electronics North America) ballasts do you have?

From this site: ...I believe the generally accepted wisdom is that starting lamps at reduced current will reduce electrode life - measured by the number of starts...

Well, it's good that houselights never start low and thus lamp life won't be shortened!:rolleyes: Note the poster further admits there seems to be no data to support this.

Just in case, Mark/Gaff, be sure to bump those HouseLights to full then fade them back down to the level you want at the end of each act. I wonder how long incandescent lamps would last if you never took them above 75%, as with most HseLts?

YMMV.
 
Well the Strand guy did some tricks with the dimmer curve and got the fluro's "working correctly". Unfortunately, that hasn't changed the fact that they are BUTT UGLY! I hate the blink off. I hate the color temperature. They look fine at full up but get really weird at lower levels.

I've got the dean coming over to hear my sales pitch to buy a dozen scoops for house lights. I was thinking just a basic Altman 14" Scoop. Anyone have any other suggestions?
 
You may have a problem in the not too distant future obtaining lamps for those scoops, with the new energy regulations and all....

I might look at using Source 4 pars with the XWFL lenses in them. What is your throw distance? What is the size of your space? We know you have 8 circuits available to do this with (which seems like a lot for Flouros) so you should have enough power.... But we need to know how much you need to light before we can make any other reccomendations...
 
Remember Gafftaper's black box space is 60' x 60', with 18' to the grid, and re-configurable seating risers. Thus; requires the 8 circuits for "zoning." So 16x S4PAR-XWFL fixtures should work, and he may not have to move them around that much. Minimum branch circuit wire gauge allowed is 14g. (he most likely has 12g. or better), so two per circuit is fine, on a 2.4Kw dimmer.

Or, there's this...
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...the world's first LED 15" Scoop, complete with asbestos leads!:twisted:
Gafftaper, maybe if you buy a college or high school six CK ColorBlaze72s (at $5000/each) for cyc lighting, they'll trade you for their 24 Scoops?

Edit: Be sure to get lots of "dark chocolate" gel for your HouseLights, I understand there's a sale going on right now!:rolleyes:
 
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Yeah, I couldn't remember the dimensions or if he had mentioned them before...

But yeah, it sounds like the Source 4 par with the xwfl lens might be the best solution.

The problem comes in that, even with the 8 circuits that he is currently using for houselights, will he want to keep the current "House" lights as worklights and then eat into his stage circuits with the new house lights. That would allow him to hang them on a show by show baisis, depending upon the audience is configured, but would cut back on the number of circuits available for stage lighting....
 
Well the Strand guy did some tricks with the dimmer curve and got the fluro's "working correctly". Unfortunately, that hasn't changed the fact that they are BUTT UGLY! I hate the blink off. I hate the color temperature. They look fine at full up but get really weird at lower levels.
I've got the dean coming over to hear my sales pitch to buy a dozen scoops for house lights. I was thinking just a basic Altman 14" Scoop. Anyone have any other suggestions?

Gafftaper I agree with some of the others you might find that regulations specified the fluro's. In your dislike of the fluro's the only thing I could see that might be a problem to other people is the colour temperature. But this could be changed by just changing the fluro's tubes. Is the temperature too cold / warm?

If the lights only dim part way before going to blackout the audience won't mind. They only look at the dimming as an indication. The only place I can see a problem is if the theatre will be used for lectures where the lights need to be part way down so people can take notes. If the lighting makes people uncomfortable then its a problem.

As someone else has pointed out, the existing wiring for the fluro's may not be rated for incandescents so that could be a hidden cost in your plan.

If this is the worst problem you find with the theatre then you are doing well. In this case I would be saying to myself I might not like it personally but is spending other peoples money to fix something I don't like an appropriate use of their money.

For instance if you change the lights the power consumption goes up. The incandescent lights will probably not last as long. Also how hard will it be to get up and change a bulb. What effect will the extra heat have on the building. I would probably find blown incandescent bulbs uglier then working fluro's.

Also I would be concerned at loosing goodwill by complaining over something that may not be really an operational problem. The dean might agree with you totally then again they might feel that lights that don't dim all the way to black is just being picky.

Having being in on the opening of a new theatre where I had to fight to get the sound system wiring to actually match the designers plan I would save the fluro's for last. This is the sort of thing that six month's later when they tell you what a wonderfull job you have done and ask "is there anything you need" I would bring up the Fluro's if they are still a problem.

Out of the two problems you have presented us the lack of guardrails on the cat walks and the fluro's I know which one I would be moving heaven and earth to fix.

Please don't take this personally it is how I see thing from a purely practical background.
 
I hadn't thought about the extra wide PARS... I actually have 16 S4 PARs and 6 extra wide lenses so I can easily give that a try.

Yes the space will be used for events where you want note taking lights. The color temperature is uneven at low levels, some lamps are pink and some are white. We would definitely leave the houselights in place as they would be used for general classroom purposes.

This is only one of MANY issues. All have been solved or are in the process of being solved: There was not being able to build a large set or put up masking because it blocked fire exits. There is the concession stand that doesn't meet health department standards. The ticket booth with 8" deep counters on the inside so there's no where for the ticket seller to work. The sound booth in a separate room so it can be open to the theater, that has a non-sliding window on it. The shop has a cabinet built so that all my rechargeable gear could be locked up and on a charger... problem is they forgot to run the power to it. They forgot to install an exhaust for the dryer in the costume area. The sawdust exhaust for the table saw was located in the wrong place and had to be moved. One 15 amp circuit to power the entire audio rack and console (It's got FOUR amplifiers in it). I could go on... but I might cry.
 
As I always say to my assistants after giving them a crap job (gel sorting or such),

"You will be greatly rewarded in the afterlife"

IF you get scoops, you know ship can tell you all about the halogen lamps you could use instead of incandescent lamps. But, at 500 watts or more, the large incandescents probably escape the "bulb ban".

I just like scoops so your students will know what they are.
 
Hang in there Mark. Every new space probably has these issues. At least you are correcting some. I think ours have stayed the same.

And, I take it you already have fall arrest... eh?

The fluros, for classes, I think is an issue. I'd use that as a main pitch. That way it's not you complaining about an aesthetic issue for yourself, it's about you complaining about a practical issue for other people, eh?
 
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Hang in there Mark. Every new space probably has these issues. At least you are correcting some. I think ours have stayed the same.
And, I take it you already have fall arrest... eh?
The fluros, for classes, I think is an issue. I'd use that as a main pitch. That way it's not you complaining about an aesthetic issue for yourself, it's about you complaining about a practical issue for other people, eh?

I'm told we don't need fall arrest. I'm also told the mini sandbag rigging system is properly designed. :rolleyes:

Actually the good news is, several of the people involved in these decisions actually appreciate the importance of the aesthetic reasons for making upgrades.
 
I'm told we don't need fall arrest. I'm also told the mini sandbag rigging system is properly designed. :rolleyes:
Actually the good news is, several of the people involved in these decisions actually appreciate the importance of the aesthetic reasons for making upgrades.

While I think you could do fine without fall arrest, I'm curious why you believe these people on this subject? Remember, your catwalks aren't even up to OSHA standards. At least it couldn't hurt.
 
While I think you could do fine without fall arrest, I'm curious why you believe these people on this subject? Remember, your catwalks aren't even up to OSHA standards. At least it couldn't hurt.

I'm actually hoping to get Jay Glerum to stop by and take a look at the place at some point in the near future. He live like 10 minutes away. Fall arrest isn't his specialty exactly but he certainly knows about it enough to give me some recommendations.
 

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