Controlling house lights two ways.

Doug Lowthian

Active Member
Situation:
  • Currently House lights are controlled only by flipping a breaker at the panel on stage left.
  • We control all other lights from an ETC Element using wireless DMX
  • The Light Board is on a rolling cart that we unplug and put away after each use
  • i would like to be able to control House Lights with the light board...
  • ...But they also need to be able to be turned on and off without gettin gthe board out when the room is used for other things.
  • Looking for ideas on what to ask for, spec out, and propose to solve this.
This link shows what the space is like. This is an old photo; we have added lights since. You can see the breaker panel near the door stage left
https://www.google.com/maps/uv?hl=e...ved=0ahUKEwjBhv-p8MDMAhWFnYMKHUYpDIYQoioIczAK
 
I would say that there is many possible ways of doing this. I would suggest a ETC DRD rack paired with a Paradigm Architectural Processor with Unison entry stations for standalone operation.
 
Situation:
  • Currently House lights are controlled only by flipping a breaker at the panel on stage left.
  • We control all other lights from an ETC Element using wireless DMX
  • The Light Board is on a rolling cart that we unplug and put away after each use
  • i would like to be able to control House Lights with the light board...
  • ...But they also need to be able to be turned on and off without gettin gthe board out when the room is used for other things.
  • Looking for ideas on what to ask for, spec out, and propose to solve this.
This link shows what the space is like. This is an old photo; we have added lights since. You can see the breaker panel near the door stage left
https://www.google.com/maps/uv?hl=en&pb=!1s0x52bb7c11040a575f:0xc2e7adf7837cc83a!2m5!2m2!1i80!2i80!3m1!2i100!3m1!7e115!4shttps://picasaweb.google.com/lh/sredir?uname=101325385286011248152&id=6164299445486443554&target=PHOTO!5sbackus community center google maps - Google Search&imagekey=!1e3!2s-hF1si29rEqc/VW0G2wqziTI/AAAAAAAAAl8/KxHLHBxlkTUVQrUrtkivXZQrSDxKsbErA&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjBhv-p8MDMAhWFnYMKHUYpDIYQoioIczAK
Let me get the ball rolling.
You've told us all of your house lighting presently comes down to "a breaker" (one breaker) in a nearby breaker panel.
Is this one, single pole, breaker?
Regardless of the number of poles, what is the rating of this one breaker?
At the economical, and repulsive, end of things, you could add a magnetic contactor, electrician-speak for a large relay, and control the contactor from as many locations as you like but you'd still be snapping the houselights to full or off, no fading / dimming, no house at half. Not terribly desirable.
Next up you could add a dimmer, or dimmers.
Depending upon the current consumed by your house lights, possibly one high wattage dimmer or several lower wattage units.
Would you be content with all house lights on one dimmer or would your space benefit from some sensible divisions? (lights over the orchestra pit, over the bulk of the main floor, over the first balcony, second balcony, etcetera) Are you happy with your lobby lighting?
If/when you add a dimmer, or dimmers, next you'd get down to control. This would include control from multiple locations. Would you want dimmable control from all locations or would some locations be satisfied with on/off functionality only? You may want a cleaners' location providing adequate illumination for cleaning but possibly not putting hours on decorative fixtures. Your fire marshall and local laws will likely want your house lights activated by your fire alarm system and someone will likely mandate a need for emergency, generator or battery, lighting.
This should get you started in your thinking. Once you get into having dimmers, tying in control from your LX board gets somewhat easier to achieve. Get your thoughts down on paper, then ask lots of questions before parting with money. Some gear choices work more compatibly than others.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.
 
You've told us all of your house lighting presently comes down to "a breaker" (one breaker) in a nearby breaker panel.
Is this one, single pole, breaker?
  • Let me clarify; It is actually 8 separate breakers for 8 separate house lighting areas, some of which have one fixture (under balcony, over balcony, center left, center center, center right, front left, front center, front right)
Would you be content with all house lights on one dimmer or would your space benefit from some sensible divisions? (lights over the orchestra pit, over the bulk of themain floor, over the first balcony, second balcony, etcetera) Are you happy with your lobby lighting?
  • Good thoughts. It would be nice to be able to control by logical areas. That is something for the mix. Lobby lighting will not be part of this system. building is a large old three story school being used now as a community center. lobby lights are on during all evening shows and we don't require those connected to show control.
Your fire marshall and local laws will likely want your house lights activated by your fire alarm system and someone will likely mandate a need for emergency, generator or battery, lighting.
  • Excellent point; will keep that in mind.

At this point we are exploring what our options are to accomplish this. We do have electricians that know about, well, installing electrical work, but not versed in theater needs, and we have theater and show people who are not electricians. Fortunately, we all get along. i like to bring to the table some proposed solutions to start us moving. Then, once we find the most cost effective solution we need to find the money from the board in a grant or other source. Thanks for the food for thought....
 
Last edited by a moderator:
From your previous posts you have an old set of switched fluorescent house lights.

I see the first issue being how far you want to go in upgrading. Ideally you would replace all the fixtures with more efficient and dimmable units. While that's a lot of money it would give the best value. It would also drive all the decisions on how to control them. If that's not possible then retrofitting the fixtures with a dimmable ballast or led/driver system is possible. But that might not be much less expensive and will likely not dim as well. The spec you are looking for is 'dimming to below 1% of output,' which is rarely possible in fluorescent.

Once you know what and how you are controlling the lights (line voltage, DMX to fixture, 0-10V to fixture, wireless, etc.) then you can worry about merging the DMX signals. There are many approaches and types of equipment. Unfortunately neither electricians nor theater technicians typically know much about blending theatrical and architectural control systems. Some vendors make products just to do that. ETC mentioned above has several systems and you've probably heard by now they are well respected around here. I could probably name a dozen other reasonable options, each with its own strengths and weaknesses. There are also many simple DMX mergers that take 2 inputs and make them one output. The real work is to set your goals in technology free terms. Define the functions you want and as much operational detail as you are certain you know. (Like how much control at each location.) That list can go to a consultant (I am one but best you get someone closer,) or at least a knowledgeable dealer to get you started on how to get it done.

Budget of course is rather important. Relay panels can be $1-2K plus installation. Full fixture replacement and DMX distribution system is more likely $50K +. (And where can you put the gear? Mounting dimming racks in the gym is not going to win you any friends.)
 
In short..
if your houselights are old fluorescent fixtures, they will have to be replaced because they won't have dimmable ballasts.
You then might as well explore LED or halogen replacement fixtures as they will dim much better. A lot of your cost will be labor anyway.
What are your stage lighting dimmers? Do you have enough extra capacity to take on the house light load (which wouldn't be anything if LED)?
If halogen and can get them on the dimmer rack, since you have DMX it will be relatively easy to put in one or more Fleenor Preset 10 remote stations or similar Lightronics units in the DMX line to your console, which will automatically take control when the main console is off or disconnected.
If LED, they will just need constant power and control off the DMX line as above.
Basically a lot of "if's".
 
Making what you have dim acceptably - even minimally - will not be easy or inexpensive. Replacing the fixtures is the best option but expensive and iirc the existing fixtures are a decorative element in the room - some historical aspects. You might consider simply adding an LED system on top of what you have, using it for some shows that Ned the good dimming houselights, from a middle level - just enough to read a program - to out.

The odd things - sconces, under balcony, etc - will be tough to integrate too.

If you go the route of dimming what's there, look at ETCs Echo line. Things like single dimmers that attach to a junction box. Very interesting and relatively inexpensive reliable products. It's still a design intensive project, considering every variable and getting it all to work together.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back