Conventionals In The Spotlight...

[WestlakeTech]

PLSN Article-"Old Lamps For New"

I just finished high school. We have tons of moving lights as some of you may have seen. And it irritates me to see 90% of the students in the program, especially the freshmen, act as though intelligent lights are the only ones out there. One of this past year's freshmen even made an "I love the Westlake intelligent lighting rig" group on facebook. So it was wonderful to open this month's PLSN and find conventional lights recieving the respect they so-well deserve.

 

[Les]

It irritates me to see that some high schools even get access to this stuff! No offense... But seriously!

I guess the silver lining is when one of them falls in love with "lighting design as they know it" and finds themselves in a theatre where you actually have to go touch the lights, and get dirty and make due with a minimal and/or antiquated system.

 

[gafftapegreenia]

That's funny because I just read that article the other day, and couldn't have agreed more. It's something we hear on CB have been preaching for years, its kinda our mantra.

Thanks for posting the article. I usually like what Nook has to say anyway.

 

[DaveySimps]

I read the article last week and could not agree more. The best part is when he began to emphasize that conventionals can do certain things BETTER than moving lights.

You gotta walk before you can run people.

~Dave

 

[WestlakeTech]

It irritates me to see that some high schools even get access to this stuff! No offense... But seriously!

I guess the silver lining is when one of them falls in love with "lighting design as they know it" and finds themselves in a theatre where you actually have to go touch the lights, and get dirty and make due with a minimal and/or antiquated system.

None taken. The fixtures in that video are now only about HALF of what we have if even that much. We just had a renovation and intelligent lighting was a big part of the budget. I often wish we had less. That video is from our dance team's annual show Zenith. Well, it's hardly a dance show anymore. We had performances on show week Thursday, Friday, and Saturday. Friday I was in the hall at school and heard a guy (who'd been at Thursday's show) tell his friend how awesome the lights were. But he didn't say a word on the dancing. The fact is, it was a massive light show, with some pretty good dancing.... but it's supposed to be the other way around. David Poole has issued Westlake TEC a prolonged death sentence, though most people regard him as a savior.... Then again, design has never been his main focus. It's just making sure he's got plenty of button-pushers.
(sorry, been holding this stuff in for 3 or 4 years so it's kinda nice to let it out)

I'm glad this article is so well received.

 

[NickJones]

It's a shame, as you don't realy learn how to program a show properly if the lights are where you need them every time. If they go and do a show without movers then they will be stuffed and spend heaps of time re-focusing. Im also with Les when he says its unfair you guys get heaps of movers. I want more movers!
Nick

 

[ship]

That's funny because I just read that article the other day, and couldn't have agreed more. It's something we hear on CB have been preaching for years, its kinda our mantra.

Thanks for posting the article. I usually like what Nook has to say anyway.

Not my mantra in posting = study of conventional fixtures first in mastering them before one touches a mover in my opinion.

I'm with Len though probably more overt in not agreeing any school really really needs a mover, or if they do it should be a cost effecive base tech system and not "the most modern in technology." This if not basing most experience in college if those of the theater say work also for the school's production house. Say if 'Cats' comes by an they have movers, getting experience in class how to deal with the movers and working with them there but not say if designing 'Adding Machine' for class they should be using moving light on it.

Grew up with magic in the theater before moving lights were invented and heck for even my first few years after college we didn't have access to moving lights either in doing good lighting anyway. Only moving light I ever used before like 99' was some burned out club rotator that we modified with gobos instead of colored swiveling lenses and a 8x16 lenstrain added to it's front. Basically taking the spinning gobo wheel with lamp and inventing our own fixture from there. Couldn't really define the one time only use fixture, kind of moved about some and three dimensionally turned over the audience in mid-air three dimensionally. Since than for me at least it's been at most say AF-1000 or MAC 250 fixtures in self test or pre-programed mode if used at all.

Learned a lot in those days, can still see what a 6x16 beam spread at 24' should look like or even a 8" Fresnel at the same distance, that's importatnt for design. Strongly feel those with a few years under the belt are best studying and learning the basics in angle, beam, intensity etc. before they also consider mastering a mover with the rest.

Rather than a jack of all traids but cool in keeping one's interet where lighting and design is involved, I would rather those learning master their skills and move up to other things. Walk before ride.

 

[SAWYeR]

I'd have to agree with everyone else. just having finished my first year of college I have worked with moving lights in three shows I've worked on, but only in one of my designs. I work for a theatre company and a production company and we use them a good deal but still, all but one of my designs have been done with conventionals. Sure movers are great, they're cool and flashy, but there's a saying at DePaul, "I don't care what you can do with moving lights, if you can't do a design with and handful of Lekos and PARs then I don't care." I feel that today many budding LDs such as myself have become far to enamored with automated lighting and think it's the only kind of lighting there is. I may know a great deal about how to use/program/design with movers, but I have not forgotten how to make a show magical with good old fashioned conventionals. I also feel very strongly on the subject of high schools owning moving lights. In my opinion giving the students the opportunity to work with such technology is an excellent learning experience, but once they get out into the real world they're going to find that very few theatres that they will be working in will own or even rent moving lights. I say it's better to get to know how to design the "old fashioned" way and have experience here and there with movers than to become spoiled at a young age and lose or never even develop the ability to design without them. However as the field of automated lighting grows and new fixtures continue to be produced I feel that there will be a growing trend in the use of movers in high schools and colleges that this will become somewhat unavoidable. I may only be 19, and I know I have a lot to learn, but this is something I feel pretty strongly about. I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens.

 

[WestlakeTech]

Well, to be honest, many of the Tech Theatre students have no aspirations of pursing any similar career. Most of them will never touch a console after they graduate. Yes, of course it's a great opportunity. But one of the things that bugs me the most is what students here get taught. They're told everything about DMX, color mixing, the operation of the Full Boar... but no one teaches them how do design intelligent light shows. And no one tells them not to make it a distraction.

Phil Gilbert, a Westlake alumnus, helps the students design. At one point in my song, he gave me some instruction on how to make the Technobeams on the floor strobe. I saw the effect and instantly said no, much to his surprise. I want people to pay more attention to the performers.

 

[shiben]

Ok a few things: 1, our college does not even have a single mover, and we are running everything from theater productions to fairly large rock concerts. Your Highschool is more than spoiled. Care to make a donation? We could probably use a few... We just picked up 2 used I-Cues, and I am still figuring out how to use them effectively without distracting the audience. 2, As a third year design student, I guess I cant understand why you have mostly movers out? Are your sound designers deaf? Mine all tend to cringe at the sound of a color scroller fan, much less a full blown mover... Anyhow, kind of a cool rig. Is it used for theatrical productions at all?

 

[photoatdv]

Well our school has a couple of groups that can afford to rent movers for their shows and the rest have a very small budget. What struck me as so... I don't know what to call it... is one of the groups rents movers for their end of year show but not winter. Well year before last was the first time they had the movers. Everyone said AWESOME. Then comes the winter show which I designed (w/o the movers) and I got constant complaints because all the dancers wanted the toys! In fact how much the dancers/ dance teachers like the lighting is directly proportional to how much of a lights show it is!

I was helping at a middle school the other day and they had a whole bunch of LED parcans, but had to rent the entire stage wash. Then they asked what new toys to get this year. Uh, lets try something to actually light your stage with! Then you can get more toys if you have money left.

 

[Les]

Well our school has a couple of groups that can afford to rent movers for their shows and the rest have a very small budget. What struck me as so... I don't know what to call it... is one of the groups rents movers for their end of year show but not winter. Well year before last was the first time they had the movers. Everyone said AWESOME. Then comes the winter show which I designed (w/o the movers) and I got constant complaints because all the dancers wanted the toys! In fact how much the dancers/ dance teachers like the lighting is directly proportional to how much of a lights show it is!

I was helping at a middle school the other day and they had a whole bunch of LED parcans, but had to rent the entire stage wash. Then they asked what new toys to get this year. Uh, lets try something to actually light your stage with! Then you can get more toys if you have money left.

That's another reason I think movers (within reason) have no place in high school. They set the expectations too high. The performers, the technicians, even the audiences get used to seeing moving lights and then you take it away and everything seems so bland because they are so used to eye candy. Same goes for a tech in high school who then has to go and design lights at a venue where you can't just spin an encoder to get a gobo to rotate. You actually have to go get a rotator, get a gobo, hang and focus a light for it, etc. You shouldn't get to play with the latest and greatest equipment in high school. High school is a gate way or an intro. It's not where you should top out at.

Movers often deprive you of much of the "art" of learning lighting design (if that's all you're using). I am not saying moving light programmers/designers are not artists, what I'm saying is most of the art comes into play when you experiment with angles, focus, shutters, frost, etc. Where do you learn how to do all that when you don't actually have to pick out a gel or refocus a light. And to me nothing is more tacky than seeing a mover posing as a conventional.

The point about the movers being distracting is a great one. The lighting design is a complete failure if it steals attention from what the show is really supposed to be about. Many young technicians have a hard time coming to terms with the fact that impressing the audience with the lights is usually not something you want to do or be proud of. You want to showcase what is on stage, not detract from it. The fact that everyone said 'awesome lights' but didn't notice the dancers proves the point that the lighting did not do it's job and only caused the point of the performance to be missed.

 

[MSLD]

Im 14, been doing shows since i was 5, i have only done two complete moving light shows only because i have done so many shows with conventionals they actually look like movers, i would rather have a lot of conventionals than movers.

 

[hhslights]

My School has no moving lights at all and I prefer it that way. The school is scheduled for a lighting renovation over the summer complete with new board, dimmer rack, wiring and of course moving lights. I am kind of excited to actually get some experience with them but do not intend to use them a lot for reasons stated. I understand my role is to enhance the performance, not upstage it. I feel that moving lights in many instances take away from what is being preformed. There are some cases where moving lights would be best and I have been upset that I have not had access to them to enhance what was going on but I made do with what I had and it turned out great. Without conventional lighting what do we have? I do not see how so many schools can just focus on the moving lights and barely educate on conventional lighting. I am glad that conventional lighting is finally getting the respect it deserves after being shadowed by the presence of moving lights in the industry.

 

[soundman]

Not everyone is trying to be a designer. I have no numbers but for every designer making a living designing how many moving light techs, programmers, dimmer techs, shop techs and others are working to support the LD's art? I would venture to say more than the one LD. Why should these students not get to have hands on experience? I might have a chip on my shoulder but I get sick of the attitude that school teaches you to be a designer, in my eyes it teaches you about design and you can use that knowledge to do more than design. When I got to college and had my meeting with the TD and now department chair I told him I wanted to be a moving light programmer, he said only one person has gone on to do that and I would not get much experience here and should pick a new idea or a new school. My sophomore year we rented a hog 1K twice, my junior year once and the summer before my senior year we bought a Road Hog Full Boar. I found ways to get hands on experience.

Getting back to the article the point is that movers do not solve all the problems. A good designer will be able to make the call when to use them and for what purpose, not just just hang them and use them to bail themselves out of trouble, that is inexperience. I worked for a very experienced designer on a corporate event where the client was known for last minute changes. The floor was made out of glass in sections making it a time consuming task to get a lift in for focusing. The LD speced moving lights over the glass to make the last minute changes less costly to the labor budget. This shows that there are situations where specing movers as CMA is a smart move.

Movers are a tool much like a welder, both can be used to make art or trash. I feel that knowing how is just as important as knowing the difference between art and trash.

 

[TimMiller]

Lots of concerts and shows we spec, we spec movers primarily due to power factors. I can run a whole lots more movers than conventionals off of a 100 amps of power. But lately I have been thinking I really miss doing a 120k rig. There is just something about flash and trash with a bunch of old beer cans that never went to heaven.....

When i design for theater, i commonly use movers, but definatly not to show off hey look what i can do. I use moving washes, or even fixed intel wash units to wash my stage in colors. But i still rely on my source 4 wash to give me a nice even basic wash. I use the moving head spots, commonly as specials for backlight, especially when the actor moves around, or needs a breakup. If i am back lighting a stair unit for example i will usually just use a source 4 and keep the movers for more important jobs. Theaters are a mystical place, and should be kept that way. You have to use your lighting tools to enhance the scene not distract. Lighting a scene properly is just like the sound tech finding the right sound effect for a scene. You dont want to hear a big giant door opening sound fx when you see them simply opening a little door. It doesnt fit, and totally distracts from the magic.

Also David Poole should really learn from his brother (i think it is) James Poole. James does a great job as a lighting designer. He really creates the scene in a magical way, and yes his rigs are insane for the budget, but it does not distract from what is going on.

 

[WestlakeTech]

Lots of concerts and shows we spec, we spec movers primarily due to power factors. I can run a whole lots more movers than conventionals off of a 100 amps of power. But lately I have been thinking I really miss doing a 120k rig. There is just something about flash and trash with a bunch of old beer cans that never went to heaven.....

When i design for theater, i commonly use movers, but definatly not to show off hey look what i can do. I use moving washes, or even fixed intel wash units to wash my stage in colors. But i still rely on my source 4 wash to give me a nice even basic wash. I use the moving head spots, commonly as specials for backlight, especially when the actor moves around, or needs a breakup. If i am back lighting a stair unit for example i will usually just use a source 4 and keep the movers for more important jobs. Theaters are a mystical place, and should be kept that way. You have to use your lighting tools to enhance the scene not distract. Lighting a scene properly is just like the sound tech finding the right sound effect for a scene. You dont want to hear a big giant door opening sound fx when you see them simply opening a little door. It doesnt fit, and totally distracts from the magic.

Also David Poole should really learn from his brother (i think it is) James Poole. James does a great job as a lighting designer. He really creates the scene in a magical way, and yes his rigs are insane for the budget, but it does not distract from what is going on.

I honestly don't know whether or not he has a brother. But David practically never even touches the fixtures or the consoles. He (as the District WCPAC Supervisor, a job created specially for him) does not teach anything. He's there for all the major PAC shows, but let's his underlings, favorite student or Phil or other members of hired staff, actually design. He's much more hands on with sound. I think he used to tour with rock bands.

And in regards to my school being spoiled... well, yeah... we are. It's a rich district, for the most part, with some bigtime tax dollars. Add in a massive Bond in 2006, and the result is Zenith 2009... in the Water Closet Performing Arts Center.

 

[Shakspeares suck]

First of all, that is quite the light show for high school...how many movers?

Secondly being a High school student myself I have barely worked with automated fixtures. I got to rent a couple of them for our production of cats and I had to learn to program them all on my own on a Colortran Innovator. I personally believe that moving lights can be an incredible thing when used properly and when the LD puts hours of thought into exactly HOW they will use the lights in the show. I like to use just conventional fixtures. It makes you think in wayyyyy different ways and helps with learning how to design. I know that I have a helluvalot to learn on my way to professional designing but this issue hits close to home for me

 

[midgetgreen11]

Seeing that many movers in a high school, and watching some of the dance show videos posted from your school on youtube, it appears as thought everything there is lit like a rock concert. The Zenith dance numbers all appeared to be light shows with some dancers in the background. My goal is for people to not notice the lighting, but the feeling it creates. Strobing 15 movers all colored red is very distracting.

Also, does Westlake have hazers built into their HVAC system?

I am trying to get a mover or two for our winter musical next year, but to add to large dance numbers and maybe use as specials. I'd be interested to see how many Westlake graduates make huge careers working in "conventional" theatres. That's quite a transition.

 

[mstaylor]

I read this thread with interest. I started in high school with auto transformer dimmers, plus two of the theatres in college had them. I came through the generations of intelligents and still prefer to light conventionally with accent with the intelligents. There are places to use them, we do a lot of corporate stuff and you need to break it up to keep them awake.