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Converting to LED on a small space.

Discussion in 'Lighting and Electrics' started by kaslo, Jan 11, 2017.

  1. kaslo

    kaslo Member

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    I am looking at quotes to upgrade my theatres lighting to LED, help save money and update the tech so theres a few more options for renters. We currently have 5 S4 Jrs...running 575w and 4 altman fresnels running 500w as well. I was looking at a replacement option for the jrs. The S4mini Led sounds nice, the space is 17' 8" inch across14' deep, and 12' to center from foh electric. Does anyone know if the mini LED work in this application? Im looking at getting 8 of them at FOH with 4 to 8 led pars to add wash, down, sides overstage. The throws seem reasonable on the data sheets, but does anyone have personal knowlegde or experience with the JR vs Mini Leds? 12w vs 575w is a huge difference...but im wondering if the 575s might not be overkill in a less than 25ft throw from foh to backwall.
     
  2. RickR

    RickR Well-Known Member

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    The mini-LEDs are much more comparable to their incandescent version, powered by a 50W MR16. Great for art on a wall but nowhere near a front wash fixture.

    There are a lot of LED discussions on the board here. I recommend some time searching through them for fixture comments and advice.
     
  3. BillConnerFASTC

    BillConnerFASTC Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    Adding some LEDs for the instant color change ability might make sense but I think there are less costly options with much more improvement than simply replacing all with LED. In existing spaces, LEDs rarely (never?) save enough money to justify a wholesale system replacement. Knowing practically nothing about your situation, one option might be to maintain your S4Jrs and even add a few, but change to the 375 watt lamp if that will do it; and augment or replace the fresnels with LED wash fixtures. The combination should be about the same total electrical power requirement, perhaps same number of dimmers redistributed, but a lot more design options, all for less money. Just a thought. Any number of other circumstances I don't know could affect this.
     
  4. MikeJ

    MikeJ Well-Known Member

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    Do you really need Ellipsoidal in that space? Decent RGBA pars might be a good fit, you can keep the S4 jrs to use as specials. Also what console do you have? It may be a lot easier to integrate simple 4-Channel pars, than LEKOs which or often at minimum 10 channels each.
     
  5. soundlight

    soundlight Well-Known Member

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    The S4 Mini LED will be wholly inadequate for your space, as mentioned - they are more for pinspotting and museum lighting than lighting stages. I would replace everything *other* than the S4 Jrs for now, because they will be the most expensive things to replace. The current pro level LED equivalent that I'd recommend is the Chauvet E-160WW with a Chauvet HD lens. As far as your PARs go, for a venue of that size, check out the Chauvet COLORdash Q12.
     
  6. MikeJ

    MikeJ Well-Known Member

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    The Quad 12, I'm pretty sure is only available in the IP65 version, and its really big because of the additional heat sink needed. The Hex12 or the Quad18 might be a better for the price, since there is no need for the outdoor rating. The Quads to a good job, I would not call them theater quality front lights, but I have used them my main front lighting for Small corporate, music, and trade show stuff, and they are pretty good. For color washes in theater they will do well. The HEX may be a lot more flexible in that regard with the addition of the white and UV leds, but I have not used them personally.
     
  7. soundlight

    soundlight Well-Known Member

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    The reason that I recommend the Quad 12 is because of improved lensing (the Quad 7 and Quad 18 have some lens-created color shadowing) and also because for a low-maintenance install, having an IP fixture means that there's nothing to clean out. it's sealed from dust. I have not used the COLORdash Hex units on a show, but I have demo'd them, and their color shadowing is worse There's something about putting 6 colors through one lens that doesn't work as well I guess. Same goes for the Elation SIXpars, there's some not insignificant color shadowing. They're okay for band backlight and such, but I would not use them for front or side light. The LEDs in the Q12 IP are also brighter chips, which probably means newer chips - the original COLORdash Quad fixtures came out quite a while ago in the grand scheme of quad-chip LEDs.
     
  8. MikeJ

    MikeJ Well-Known Member

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    Interesting. I did notice that the quad 12s has a wider beam angle, probably between a a MFL and WFL at first glance, though I did not look at them closely. Good to know that the beam is much smoother, I actually just bought some with the intention of using them as a DS wash for outdoor concerts, IP65 was my main need, so I figured being at least as good as the Q18s, would work. I'll for sure take a closer look at them Monday, sounds like they may actually be good for other applications too.

    I don't know that I would Describe the 18s as having "shadowing", because its not the old days when fixtures has 100 individual Leds, but its more like "splotchiness." across the field. There are not distinct hard edges, but it looks kind of like when you mix a bunch of colors of point together, but don't quite mix it all the way. But yes, Outside of a rock show, or as a house light, scenic light in corporate setups, probably not a good choice, especially for face lighting in theater. However, I have used them with great results, lighting scenic elements, and as hair light for theater type show.

    To clatify, and give a full disclaimer. I have not used any of the HEX products, I was just mentioning them that they were out there at a similar price. If you want a really good Theater par, you are going to have to spend a more on one of the truly blended LED source units from Elation, Chauvet, or apparently the old Christmas tree lights from ETC still do a bang up job, but I have not used those either.
     

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