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correct wire order in Pin cable

Discussion in 'Lighting and Electrics' started by zac850, Aug 28, 2004.

  1. zac850

    zac850 Well-Known Member

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    I have to rewire a pin plug on one of my schools Source 4's, and I just want to make sure I do it correctly.

    Looking at it so that the side with 2 pins next to each other on the left, as in this somewhat badly drawn diagram:

    EDIT, OK, the drawing isn't working, I hope you know what I mean


    Anyway, like this, going from left to right, you have: white, green, black.

    Is this correct?
     
  2. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    It is absolutely not within your bounds to be doing this without trained supervision. Sorry to say this and even in asking here, there is stuff that cannot be adiquately explained or shown on the net and without eyes on the topic. Such things as proper strain relief, ferrules and what wire goes where are easy to explain but without following the instructions and having a torque screw driver on hand, how does one go about telling but not verifying 1/4 turn past finger tight with words?

    This wiring of a stage pin connector as from what I read I would guess is very easy but there are ever so many little details.

    Given it's a stage pin/slip/2P&G connector as described than there is also normally letters printed within the plug. At very least that center pin which sticks out further than the other two will have a "G" next to it. G for ground and green.

    The other two in this specific instrument don't really matter unless the wires are coated in a specirfic color. In actuality, it's a dual pin lamp thus it does not matter which color or wire goes to which pin because both serve the same purpose. In a screw base or medium pre-focus, even some special bi-pin lamps where the pins are of differing sizes it will matter but hot and neutral on a ETC fixture are interchangable given the lamp base and lamp.

    Pick one wire and make it hot - the one furthest away and normally black as a color, and the other as neutral/return or white in most instances. For Euro it's brown and blue much less there is other colors in use all around. In the US, the only colors sutible for ground are green or green and yellow or white with a green stripe. The only colors for neutral are white or grey and if on a Euro fixture blue as opposed to brown. Otherwise the primary "hot" colors are black, than red, than blue, and orange with caution as to if it's a high leg or not which is bad to be tapping. After that any color of wire is also hot.

    This is as opposed to electronics and DC wiring where if I remember black is than either positive or neutral.

    As you can see in these small details, there is lots to the which wire goes where much less what does what.

    Now given even a maintinence person that knows hot neutral and ground you can if needed get adiquate supervision to some extent. Get a new stage pin plug, pull out the directions on stuff like the use of strain relief and ferrule and have them verify your work for at least the first couple of plugs. They than are also responsible in supervision as necessary no doubt by the school board. Otherwise your instructor had at best get some training fast given this is what they are in charged of.

    Any book on stage lighting much less electricity will also supplement this. But again, nothing replaces the need for supervision that there is not a mistake, things are done right and there is enough tension but not overkill on the screw terminal. Much less that a ferrule is used. We would about get into the size of a ETC fixture's wire in being 16ga. not fitting too well within a normal 12ga ferrule without some folding or a sub-ferrule. Details for later given proper tension that needs to at start to be verified. Plus the proper strain relief used.

    The instructions that come with new plugs are actually a useful and helpful read also. Even if a used plug, buying a new one just for the instructions is well worth the say lunch money.

    By the way there is other things to check on the used plug such as gap spacing and oxidation/arcing.
     
  3. Foxinabox10

    Foxinabox10 Active Member

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    Officially, black is line and white is neutral and of course green is ground.
     
  4. digitaltec

    digitaltec Active Member

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    Just to kinda add on to what Ship was saying and to add to what I have said on this site for months, dealing with power is not something that should be taken lightly. You dont need to be all cool and try to impress people by doing something your not really sure how to do. That really applies torwards anything. I would think that none of you would just start rigging stuff without doing the proper calculations, etc and without being shown how to by a knowleged staff member. There is nothing wrong with saying no or asking for help.

    As many of you know, I have been in the industry for a few years now and there is some stuff that I still will not touch, such as tieing in power. I will seriously wait for hours waiting for a house electrician to get there before I touch a venues service. Do I know how to tie in power, yes, but if there is someone else to do it, I'm going to let them take care of it. Cause, if you "mess up" tieing in a 300-800 amp service, your not going to have the chance to try to do it right the next time. I have yet to hear anyone on that crew complain yet, because they know im not comfortable doing it and the respect that.

    I'm just trying to stress safety. Belive me, I was always the type of person who thought I could do anything and everything. I really dont wan't to hear about of any of you getting hurt. So, please if you are dealing with anything that could put you or others in harms way, unless you are 110% sure you know what to do, there is nothing wrong with asking for help.
     
  5. bdesmond

    bdesmond Active Member

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    In addition to agreeing with Brian & Chris, one source of someone who knows what they're doing is most likely the vnedor that sold you the fixtures. ASk them to bring out a couple of plugs and to spend an hour with you and an adult (e.g. theater instructor) going through the mechanics of this. Conceptually, no, this is not a difficult task. Mechanically, if not done right, you're going to have problems. Electricity is one of those things which kills you the first time.

    That said, stagepin is generally arranged like this and common colors to match:

    o Hot (Black, Red, Blue, White w/ Black stripe)


    o Ground (Green)
    o Neutral (White)

    That said, whilst those are usually the colors of choice, they aren't always used.

    The fact that you're asking this question implies that you need to get someone who's done this a few times to actually have you do this in front of them so that they can point out mistakes, key points, etc.
     
  6. Mayhem

    Mayhem Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    I find it interesting that you could have a hot and a neutral wire (essentially) the same colour, with just a stripe differentiating the two.

    I guess this is why I am reluctant to get involved in such discussions when it comes to giving instructions or directions.

    For example, if you asked me "what the blue wire was" my gut reaction would be Neutral in a single phase cable and Hot #3 in a 3 phase connector. Could have some serious implications for anyone not from the US in taking my advice a gospel.

    Just for comparison here are the colour codes used in Australia:

    Single Phase:

    Hot - Brown (or Red in older wiring)
    Neutral - Blue (or Black in older wiring)
    Ground - Green/Yellow (Green in older wiring)

    Three Phase:

    Hot #1 - Red
    Hot #2 - White
    Hot #3 - Blue
    Neutral - Black
    Ground - Green/Yellow

    DC - Red would be the standard colour used for + and Black for -
     
  7. bdesmond

    bdesmond Active Member

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    Yeah, single phase colors are generally different here. I haven't a clue about three phase colors - don't have much call to know as I haven't much of a clue in general about such business.

    By stripe I meant some black tape around the jacket at either end. I forget where this is common, though I believe when dealing with three way light switches it is. With three way light swithces, red is usually the wire that runs between the switches, just to add to the mix of color bingo here.
     
  8. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    You know I believe that I have seen some of this older Euro cable on some IEC cords before.

    Do note in reading where Mayhem is located as to his coloring on power cables. He has to be careful with our cables and wiring, we with his. Everyone needs to know what they are doing.


    In wires, given all are white, but one is solid white or white with a grey stripe, another is white and green, the other is white with a stripe in a color, it's not that difficult to figure out. Such concepts come from the older telephone industry I think. You will infrequently find it on multi-cable and on some of the earlier forms of lower temperature silicone heat wire.

    Remember this is a bi-pin fixture with both pins equal. Given this, it does not matter which pin is hot and which is neutral. You are not required to perminantly mark other than ground on such fixtures thus because the otehr two wires are universal and also lacking in any color - both being white.

    On neutral wires, finding them grey in color is going to become more and more common with time so don't be surprised when you see it.
     
  9. Nephilim

    Nephilim Active Member

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    All the 3phase camlock I've used here is:

    Hot1: Black
    Hot2: Red
    Hot3: Blue
    Neut: White
    Ground: Green

    With regards to tying in, I'm comfortable tying in 50-100amp cam lines or 2phase L6-20 stuff; basically anywhere I'm dealing with switched supplies and prefab connectors. I don't touch bare end AC.
     
  10. bdesmond

    bdesmond Active Member

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    Striping cables is a big telecom thing. Any CAT5, CAT3, telco multi cable is going to be slod and white with solid pairs. Solid is Tip, White w/ Solid is Ring, aka positive & negative respectively. In CAT5, you've got Brown, Brown w/ White Green, Green w/ White, Orange, Orange W/ White Blue, Blue w/White for example...
     
  11. Mayhem

    Mayhem Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    Remember I'm in the Mother land!
     
  12. Nephilim

    Nephilim Active Member

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    I know :) Was just providing a comparison.
     
  13. ecglstec

    ecglstec Member

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    As an apprentice elecrician, don't try to do this if you don't have proper supervision.

    Mistakes with electrical wiring is dangerous and I have first hand experience:

    I was doing a smal 20 amp ( 440v) tie in at a local office under supervision of a LIC Elec. I had the ground tied into the busbar and then went to tie the neutral in but I hit a small wire with screw driver and arc welded the screw driver to the frame. I had on insulating gloves... imagine if i didn't.

    As for three phase wiring standards:

    Most US three phase

    Phase X - Black

    Phase Y - Red ( sometimes orange if its a higher voltage system)

    Phase Z - Blue

    Neutral - White or Gray depending on voltage. ( not all three phase has a Neutral)

    Ground - Green or exposed wire ( sometimes it will have a stripe to indicate which system its on along with all the other wires)

    NEVER ASSUME A GROUND IS A GROUND OR A NEUTRAL IS A NEUTRAL! I've come across a few hot grounds before!

    Don't try something that is dangerous if you don't know how... You or, even worse, somone else could die because or your stupidity.
     

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