Could have been a Runaway...

I typed a really long reply on my phone on break at work, but it didn't allow me to post...

I am assuming that you are a student and haven't been trained. I am also gonna assume that none of the staff at your school has been trained. Your teacher needs to be trained before there is a serious accident.

There is no such thing as a small accident on the fly rail. Even if the lineset is just a few bricks out of weight and you have a runaway the arbor can be severely damaged, and knowing highschools it probably wont be properly repaired, leading to more damage and more risk.

Your teacher needs to be told that having students "muscle" in linesets and locking them out of weight is extremely dangerous. While the lock can hold the weight, it is not made to and WILL fail at some point. Your teacher is playing a dangerous guessing game, that can easily result in serious student injury and possibly death. The fly system is a safe system when there are trained people behind the wheel, but can be very dangerous when untrained people use it.

Your teacher needs to be trained, period. I would tell her that you don't feel safe that she is making you muscle in the batten. I would also go to an administrator and tell them that it is being used unsafely because of the lack of proper training. There are plenty of trained riggers on this site that will probably gladly give you their number and back you up on this.

When I got trained I gained a new respect for the fly system and realized how dangerous it is. Peoples lives are not something to take chances with. You can probably find more horror stories on this site and online but I just saw this one recently. http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/facility/10449-runaway.html I'd even print off and show this picture to your teacher, to show her the real dangers.

Don't take my message too personally, I have been in your position many times. I am really worried about the lack of training and frankly the lack of safety at your school. I really don't want your next post to be talking about an accident.
 
Your teacher is playing a dangerous guessing game, that can easily result in serious student injury and possibly death.

Your teacher needs to be trained, period.

Peoples lives are not something to take chances with.

http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/facility/10449-runaway.html

Holy crap. Thats a scary picture, and should be a MAJOR reality check. Imagine you body under that. Better yet, imagine being responsible for someone being crushed by that. Its easy to say "I'm putting my own life on the line", but when you realize that its not just you, but everyone is in danger, thats when you should step back and say "I refuse to operate this without training and having it be inspected"

Also I really agree with these sentiments, someone NEEDS to report this. If it goes on like this, then there will be a major incident, and someone WILL get hurt. DONT LET IT HAPPEN

In case your too lazy and you dont think the picture is anything important, here it is:

proxy.php
 
And also, reading that last one (about the Drama Teacher pushing the student flyman out of the way and starting a runaway), we need to educate our Drama Teachers. In fact, we need to educate all our faculty who use the stage. Just basic stage safety. Before they kill themselves or the children.
I have been in three different districts now, all at schools with fly systems. None of the districts had a TD or auditorium manager, and none of them required any sort of credentials for a drama teacher to have a technical background. When I was hired, I was simply asked if I was into technology, and "yes" sufficed. At each site I have pushed for safety inspections and rules, and only my current school let me get away with locking off the system to everyone except myself and my supervised crew. At most of the locations I was met with hostility when I tried to explain why we needed more rules.

I'm familiar with the certification for teaching theater in a handful of states, and none of them include theater tech.

I've been at my current site for some time now - and I would probably refuse to work somewhere now if they didn't have proper oversite or give me control. Screw up lights, and they can't see. Screw up audio, and they can't hear. Screw up rigging, and someone is dead.
 
It is threads like this that make me glad my school does not have a fly system. Period.

It is also threads like this that make me sick when people here even talk about home-brewing fly systems.
 
I was so glad my one stop as a high school TD the fly rail was actually a fly rail (with seperate loading rail) that we could lock off (and there was only one key, mine).

Mike
 
If I were to go to admin or the school board I'd get kicked off the crew. I went to the auditorium manager (before they cut the position) about various problems and lost 1 show and almost lost another over it. My school has the "ignore and intimidate" down to a fine art. Though once I graduate I fully plan on sending an anonomous letter to somebody (high up) about it and if that doesn't work maybe a newspaper.

Right now the best I can do is try to get them to let me fix anything that I can and have our pro guys do the rest when they're here.
 
If I were to go to admin or the school board I'd get kicked off the crew. I went to the auditorium manager (before they cut the position) about various problems and lost 1 show and almost lost another over it.

No offense, but we're talking about people's lives here, and you're worried about losing a show or two?

Please, somebody write the letter...
 
No offense, but we're talking about people's lives here, and you're worried about losing a show or two?

Please, somebody write the letter...

I second that request. This isn't a joke, and waiting that long might be too late.
 
If you've ever been part of the legal process, it's a painfully long and slow experience, sometimes spanning several years. Even if you aren't liable for something that happens in that space, do you really want to be part of a deposition/lawsuit/testimony where people were horribly injured or killed because of something you were a part of? (Even indirectly). You're smart enough to know what's going on is wrong, and yet you're willing to still be a part of it. Staying silent makes you just as guilty (although you may not have the liability of the adults and district) and you'll beat yourself up over it when (notice, I didn't say "if") a person is horribly injured or dies.
 
If I were to go to admin or the school board I'd get kicked off the crew. I went to the auditorium manager (before they cut the position) about various problems and lost 1 show and almost lost another over it. My school has the "ignore and intimidate" down to a fine art. Though once I graduate I fully plan on sending an anonomous letter to somebody (high up) about it and if that doesn't work maybe a newspaper.

Right now the best I can do is try to get them to let me fix anything that I can and have our pro guys do the rest when they're here.

Take pictures, video...any evidence you can get will help. Find someone in the administration who you know and will listen to you, if you can't find an administrator then find a faculty member, trust me, it always better to have at least one faculty member on your side, you will go much farther. After the administration then I would go to the local building inspector, then if that doesn't work then I would go to the media.
 
Last edited:
If I were to go to admin or the school board I'd get kicked off the crew. I went to the auditorium manager (before they cut the position) about various problems and lost 1 show and almost lost another over it. My school has the "ignore and intimidate" down to a fine art. Though once I graduate I fully plan on sending an anonomous letter to somebody (high up) about it and if that doesn't work maybe a newspaper.

Right now the best I can do is try to get them to let me fix anything that I can and have our pro guys do the rest when they're here.

I'm going through the same exact situation as you in another thread, and it is an extremely hard decision to make. For many of us in high school, tech theatre is all that we have. And unfortunately, the more you know, the worse things become. It's a horrible decision to make, and one that will impact you for the rest of your high school career, if not further. You are basically challenging your supervisor and telling them that you know more than them about the system, and that they are risking the lives of their students by allowing this to continue - something that no teacher wants to hear from a student.

Think of it this way. Imagine what would happen if an accident did occur. Could you live with yourself knowing that you could have stopped someone from dying or becoming seriously injured, but chose not to? I personally could not. I have an enourmous amount of respect for my TD, as I worked with him before he was ever hired at the school, and am on a first-name basis with him. However, I would not hesitate to get him fired and even taken to court if he continued doing something that had a high chance of killing or seriously injuring someone. Obviously it's a decision that you and you alone have to make - but you are not alone in the fight. I contacted a number of industry professionals, some of whom are listed in that thread above, and I have recieved responses from all of them. Two of the biggest and most respected names in theatre have offered to personally call my TD and explain to him why this would be a bad idea.

This is the internet, and presuming that you have told no one at school too much about this, it can never be traced back to you. So the question becomes - could you live knowing that you could have prevented the death of your classmate, but chose not to because you didn't want to get kicked out of a show?
 
I too am in high school, but I would not hesitate to report this. If it was something more minor, I would bring it up with my TD, then proceed down the line. but something as major as this, even though it could cost us a lot, is not worth nearly as much as someone's life. NOTHING is.

If you value your friends opinion over you more than someone's life, you shouldn't be in tech. PEOPLE'S LIVES ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT THING. PERIOD.
You really need to understand this.
 
Last edited:
The school board is not the place to start. They don't deal with day to day details like this, nor should they. Perhaps we have some school employees that could comment, but I would start with the Principal. From there, I would think that most school districts would have an administrator that handles health, safety, and risk management (legal and insurance stuff). This issue should be of great interest to that person. It could be that those responsibilities fall to the Director of Facilities or an Assistant Superintendent. Failing that, go to the Superintendent.
 
Last edited:
heres a question:

Does any high school theatre without a TD have a fly system? From what I've been reading, if you don't have one and you just know "the big things go down, the smaller one goes up", I really dont think they should use a fly system. But I doubt a high school with a fly system doesn't have a TD........right?

In my high school, the theatre was an open part of the school. During school hours, students were passing through it constantly--there were at least three class rooms that were behind the theatre, and the only way to get to them was walk through the audience. All in all, the theatre was completely insecure.

When it was actually being used as a theatre though, we had two people who would come in and run the tech side of it. They were responsible for "hiring" the student techs. By hiring I mean deciding if they would allow you to volunteer. The first day we were on stage was all about safety--what you were and weren't allowed to touch. If you hadn't been trained and given the ok from them, you weren't allowed to touch the flyrail except under their direct supervision. If they caught you doing something you weren't supposed to, you were off tech.
 
In my high school, the theatre was an open part of the school. During school hours, students were passing through it constantly--there were at least three class rooms that were behind the theatre, and the only way to get to them was walk through the audience. All in all, the theatre was completely insecure.

When it was actually being used as a theatre though, we had two people who would come in and run the tech side of it. They were responsible for "hiring" the student techs. By hiring I mean deciding if they would allow you to volunteer. The first day we were on stage was all about safety--what you were and weren't allowed to touch. If you hadn't been trained and given the ok from them, you weren't allowed to touch the flyrail except under their direct supervision. If they caught you doing something you weren't supposed to, you were off tech.

Sounds like, and very well may be, what I knew as my middle school. That sounds exactly like the old auditorium across the street from the existing high school. Fortunately with the new arts Center we just built, we have a designated arts center manager, and unless a school group (with teacher) or experienced student tech is doing work in there, the house and stage are usually locked off. They even went to the extent of alarming the doors to the center so anyone entering from the school during times they shouldn't be in there, sets off a really loud alarm that's impossible to tell whether or not it's armed unless you've set it off.

In the old auditorium when students would walk through the audience, it was always fun to show up to that night's rehearsal and see what the students had screwed up or vandalized. I remember piecing back together my sound system once or twice and cleaning up paint some kid threw all over the set and border lights for giggles. The worst thing was the study halls they would hold in there.

Now the middle school has been shut down and divided into two new intermediates which both have cafetoriums. One of the strangest rooms ever conceived, but they work well for age groups that have no grasp for respecting their performance venues. Both intermediates were upset that they wouldn't, by default, be allowed to perform all of their shows at the new theatre. Granted, these are groups that are used to two months on stage for rehearsals, [have asked that] the rehearsal hall or scene shop become their dedicated costuming area for two months, and so on and so forth. The harsh reality is that in a roadhouse, it's load a show in, maybe one rehearsal, two if you're especially lucky, and then performance(s) and "get the heck out of here." Roadhouse budgets, seasons, and overall success simply doesn't coexist well with groups like that.

Ironically, I ended up cleaning up the mess of our two people that came in and did everything. They always emphasized safety, but I truly am surprised they were never the cause of someone getting killed. This past summer when I cleaned out old equipment left in their wake, I had huge piles of orange and brown extension cords that I had to throw away. Many of the cords that were intended to have ground pins, had the ground pins removed, or exposed conductors. I remember finding this brown extension cord that had been sliced and diced with zip cord to create essentially a 60' brown extension cord of ungrounded doom, which is perfect for taking that household lamp into the middle of a football field and turning it on, but belongs no where near a stage. I also remember finding flash powder that had been sitting in a coffee can for nearly 10 years, painting chemicals that were leaking on the floor of the storage room, fixtures with lovely asbestos insulated [or] exposed conductors. If confronted, they'd turn around in a heartbeat and say "It's not included in our contract to deal with those problems" even though they had been sitting on that junk for ~28 years.

They taught me one significant thing; the only thing worse than no technical management is poor technical management. I made a stand against them on a production when they were yelling at the entire crew, accusing them that the emotional distress of one female crew member was all their fault, and they were the reason this person had quit the show. I then refuted that(as the stage manager), stating that some people just shouldn't be involved in theatre as their existing emotional conditions are only going to become worse as a direct result of their involvement, and that the crew in no form had been the cause of this girl's emotional breakdown(which we'd later find out was because of her finding out she was pregnant with her graduated, military ex-boyfriend's child). Yea, that was when they told me I was terrible person, suggested I shouldn't be on the show, and then threatened to revoke my access to their tech theatre scholarship program, which I appropriately refer to as blood money due to the number of times I've seen them hold it against people. I took a few days off from the show and came back, but they were all into politics. They couldn't go through a show without making their objections to the director's plans publicly known to the crew.

A few weeks back I remember seeing a thread about what traits are good to technical directors, and I thought to myself that these two were the exact opposite of anyone that should ever fill those positions. Especially that part about not pitting techs against other techs. In their later days in theatre, they were simply embittered people that sucked students into their embittered black hole of inexperience and harsh attitude problems, surrounded by a cloud of maladaptive and inappropriately political tendencies. I now emphasize to all of my students that the entire premise of live theatre is constantly changing details that you need to be prepared for and willing to take head on without complaint. That last (and hopefully final) show that those two "technical directors" worked on, during strike, said that it was OK for a crew member to call a cast member an ________ for helping out incorrectly, and that the cast member probably had it coming to them. Those are not people that I ever want as role models in my school.

The only aspect of theatre they approached safely was rigging. They took rigging very seriously, but it's still OK to run 3/4 of the lighting system with orange extension cords and for one particular show use miles of orange extension cords to run stage lighting and 40 circuits of Xmas lights. We put a couple people in the hospital from time to time, be it a staple in the thumb that permanently damaged nerves, or the kid throwing lenses in the dumpster who sliced her hand so wide open we had to get a mop to clean the blood up with, or that time one of them went up on a 14' ladder to focus lights, which it was stacked on two sets of 48" risers and he stood on the absolute top "non-step," but I'll be darned, you were safe when the arbors were being reweighed. Oh man, I miss the days when they would store the asbestos-wired lights in all of their frayed goodness inside of a cold air return duct for the high school. Mustn't forget that blue polystyrene they fought with our fire marshal to use on stage. I know that stuff is relatively OK when you have five layers of paint on it and it comprises about one piece of 'furniture' or prop, but they used it like it was muslin or plywood. They made chairs out of it, walls, fireplaces; entire sets were built in blue polystyrene. You know, that same stuff that killed some 17 people in '97 in Dusseldorf Airport and harmed many more due to smoke inhalation and caused hundreds of millions of dollars in damages. Yea, these people argued with the fire marshal about that. IF there's anything any intelligent person in tech theatre knows, it's that you never argue with the fire marshal.

Also ironic, is that they're also the same people that made a stand against winches(winches were the original proposal for our new center), which is why we have a counterweight system.

Be careful what you wish for, just because there's a TD on the premise doesn't really mean they're qualified. In many schools there's a person with that as their job title, who just so happens to be someone who originally applied for their English teaching position and when posed the question responded with, "Yes, I can manage the theatre," even though they're making it up as they go along in hopes they get hired. I now never even make assumptions that my employers know what they're doing, or are using safe practices while they work. I have one TD who wraps his lighting power cables around the pipes of the electric, another who uses a single-man lift with the outriggers removed, coworkers who laugh at the prospect of using a harness while in the lift, and another employer who uses a staple gun to secure [wiring] for practicals to set pieces. Nobody's perfect, but some are signicantly more dangerous to the general public more than others. The overall point being that just because someone fills a job title, doesn't mean that fill the job description, as stagehands, it's our responsibility to not take the practices of others as assumed to being unquestionably safe, regardness of who it is or how experienced they are.
 
It is the old auditorium across the street. Unfortunately I haven't had a chance to see the new PAC, but I've heard it's amazing...at least compared to the old studyhall--I mean theatre.

I'll admit that I didn't learn too much other than generic tech (walk with purpose, etc) but I do remember rigging--I never realy paid much attention to the lights, except wanting to run the "computerized" board. I haven't run fly's for a show here at college, but I am one of the smaller group of people that will load the flys.

I agree completely with the second part of your post. The theatre here used to be run by a TD--and I use the term lightly--that was a house builder. Things were poorly designed, supported and wired, he threw out working equipment because "it wasn't needed," and he had no respect for our space (the concert hall). The theatre group once used the good black concert chairs as paint stands...we weren't too thrilled about that. But now we have a TD that actually knows what he's doing and things have been improving. They aren't perfect yet--probably never will be completely perfect--but there's a lot of students that have to have their bad habits broken, or just wait for them to graduate.

----------
Alex Hummel
KC9NSG
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back