Creating a rep plot with moving fixtures

[HomeGrown]

The company I work for is opening our own space and we are currently in the process of creating a lighting inventory for the new space.

The space will house several theatre and dance companies with very little change over time between productions so we are needing to create a rep plot that allows for extreme flexibility.

It is going to be a convertible space with a central playing space that stays the same for all configurations, in order to convert to thrust the movable deck platforms making up the wing space can be removed and reconfigured into seating platforms, with chairs being removed from the back of the house and moved to the side sections. Same goes for the furthest upstage and crossover space deck platforms should we want to convert to arena seating. The grid of the theatre will be at 18' above the deck, with a 30' wide proscenium, and 24' deep playing space.

We've been running the numbers and it looks like what will make the most financial sense is to create a plot that involves a basic CYA plot of source fours creating basic washes from the front, back and sides but letting the main workhorses of the plot be washes created by a large number of moving fixtures with a series of pre-programed focus pallets.

One of our resident designers has created a light plot modeled after the ones most commercial productions currently use, which involves:
-4 over stage electrics each with 5 moving arc spot fixtures (he suggests Martin Mac 2000 Performances) and 4 moving Tungsten wash fixtures (he suggests Martin TW1's, VL500s or something slightly older) alternating across the width of the space
-2 FOH electrics with 3 tungsten spot fixtures (He suggests VL1000's)
-4 FOH of house arc spot fixtures (he suggests Martin Mac 2000 Performances again) 2 on the HL Boom box and 2 on the HR

His logic on this that comparative to a plot of almost entirely Source Four Luster 2's with enough moving fixtures to use as specials, the purchasing cost is roughly the same, with the moving light plot allowing us to buy mostly good condition used fixtures for significantly less than they would be new. The numbers are relatively the same in regards to a plot of source fours with color scrollers as we would have to purchase significantly more dimmers. In terms of day to day operation, the numbers show it is going to be much cheeper for us to stock enough spares and parts and hire a full time in house light technician who can routinely swap out fixtures with spares to perform maintenance regularly than it would be to have to hire a full electrics crew to strike source fours and re-hang them in a new plot between groups and when we re-orient the space and have to have a focus call involving teams with ladders as opposed to a programmer at the board.

All in all I think its a pretty good plan, but I have a series of questions about this proposal I would love some thoughts on:
-The biggest question: How important will it be to us to have shuttered fixtures over the stage in regards to creating high side washes? We could sub out the over-stage Mac 2000 performance's for something lighter, less hard to maintain and cheeper if we deem that feature less important.
-Is one full time technician and a few part time interns enough to maintain a plot this extensive?
-Is this an overkill number of fixtures for what we are trying to do? Could we get by with 3 over-stage electrics or less fixtures on each batten in the size space we have?
-Are the fixture suggestions in the right ballpark for what we are trying to do or would anyone suggest other fixtures that would be better suited, cheeper, easier to maintain, lighter or more reliable or are these the best for us?
-Would you suggest adding a system of low hanging side fixtures in the wings that could be used as face-light in another configuration?
-What should we be planning on in regards to noise? is the a particularily loud group of fixtures when you get this many together. If so, what can we do to counteract that?
-Is there some massive hole in this plan that none of us our seeing?

Thank you all for making your way through a rather long and rambling post. This is way bigger of a plot than I have ever dealt with so I am a tad in the dark. any advice and guidance is appreciated

 

[MNicolai]

It sounds like you're putting all of your eggs in one discontinued basket. For whatever it's worth, here are my thoughts in no particular order.

Going all movers all the time adds a lot of unforeseen overhead. First off -- all those dance shows that'll rent your theater and want to only pay for one day of rehearsal -- they can no longer supply their own fader monkey to throw some quick colors up for your events. Now they to pay for a real programmer -- which means it's now more expensive to book your venue because not only do they need a programmer they wouldn't have otherwise needed but they also need more time on-stage to set looks. It's a lot harder to fly through a rehearsal one track right after the other. You have no idea how often I get phone calls from directors or friends looking for a programmer because they're doing a specialty event and either can't find a programmer/designer at all or the one they found bailed on them at the last minute. Ease of use matters. Yes, it's nice to have bells and whistles for the occasions where you happen to have someone who can take full advantage of them. It's just not very wise to make bells and whistles the basis of your design that will need to cover all of your events for a wide variety of users and experience levels.

By scattering your plot across several types of movers you also have to keep a stock of several different fixtures worth of parts. Ideally you would have 1-2 spares per type so you're prerequisite number of spare fixtures would also go up. You're also selecting some discontinued models, which may be cheap on the used market but expect parts will become more expensive and that after a couple critical failures you'll find yourself stuck between unreasonable repair costs or having to replace an entire line of your fixtures to keep your plot consistent.

Also don't underestimate the PITA factor of having a mission-critical fixture go down right before a show and either having to hold the house to swap it or refund some of the rental fee to the group for the inconvenience.

The movers may not be too loud for dance but for straight, non-musical theater you'll definitely hear them enough that it may make it harder to hear the performers.

RE: Staffing -- the whole idea of a rep plot is that you're not calling a full electrics crew in all the time to swap fixtures between events. You cover enough of your bases in enough colors that you can swap gels (assuming you're not LED, which would be even easier) to suit different styles of events, and you keep some extra fixtures in the air for specials (spots, gobos, extra color somewhere for something added). Do it right and you can cover 3-4 events in a row with the same plot and ~2 hours between shows for 1-2 people to flip colors and touch up focus. If your directors aren't picky you can even get by without having to refocus or recolor for a fair number of events.

Extreme flexibility almost never means extreme ease of use. I'm not saying don't do movers -- but don't do it because you think it's easier than conventionals or static LED's. The problems with movers are more frequent and usually more costly in magnitude. Plus they happen whenever is least convenient. On top of that, you're placed at the mercy of the availability and experience of whoever maintains them for you. Whatever you think you're saving in not having to pay wrench monkeys, just remember finding a monkey to wield a wrench is cheap and will cost you a lot less Advil.

If you want a little extra flexibility you may want to look at a more traditional rep plot of conventionals or static LED's with 2-3 movers peppered in. If someone wants tour-grade rock concert lighting you can rent it in and the group can pay for it. A few movers can be great though to hit the specials without having to constantly rehang and refocus lights. If you lose one or all of your movers to catastrophe you just pull it from your plot and don't tell people you have it and hang a Source Four for their special instead. It's a lot different than having movers be the basis of your plot and if one goes down in any position your entire plot becomes cattywompus with sizable gaps in it.

 

[danTt]

I agree with @MNicolai on this one. You're going to hate the repair.

From a basic coveage perspective alone, a system of five arc movers across will give you nice downlight system, but I think you'll be sacrificing sidelight. A TW1 or VL1100 is not going to be able to share a stage successfully with a Mac2000 or VL3500, so those lights will rapidly become expensive eyecandy. Programming will turn into a nightmare as well.

Also consider that you are buying ~fifteen year old moving light technology. They're less power efficient, noisier, and at this point--prone to breakage. Sure Lustr2's don't wiggle, but they have many fewer breaking parts and change color very very well.

I don't know if I'd commit to a lustr2 house yet, though. I've got a feeling we'll be seeing a Lustr3 sometime soon, and the lustr2 just doesn't feel bright enough to me, especially given the capital investment it will require. You might be better to look at a colorsource rig + a few movers for specials, you'll still get a better color range than your mover idea, and have the best of both worlds. I'd suggest looking at the Robe DL4S or DL4X are your specials... They are punchy, all LED, quiet, and quite affordable.

 

[HomeGrown]

Thank you both for all your thoughts so far. All points taken. It was probably not explained very well that the wash fixtures overstage were to serve as down/ blacklight fixtures where as the spot fixtures were going to be used to create high side lite systems.

Putting aside the cost of hiring a programmer, how much more viable is my staff members plan if we sub out the fixtures for:
-3 over stage electrics each with 5 Robe Robin DLX Spots and 4 Vari lite VLX's alternating across the width of the space AND two source fours with seachanger engines or CXI scrollers pipe end stage left and two source fours with seachanger engines or CXI scrollers pipe end stage right, creating high side systesms.
-4 FOH Vari lite VLX's on an electric used as specials
-4 FOH Robe Robin DLX Spots 2 on the HL Boom box and 2 on the HR
-9 FOH source fours as a facelight system
-a spare of each fixture

Its not a significantly more expensive package of equipment if most is purchased slightly used.

Will this help us:
-Reduce fan/ motion noise from the initial plan?
-Reduce maintenance/ replacement part costs?
-Reduce electricity costs?

A few questions on the fixtures as well:
-How are the DLX spots and VLX's on skin tones in their 3200k settings? compared to tungsten sources? are either fixture good facelight fixtures?
-How badly will we miss having framing shutters on the spot fixtures? can we still create the washes we want without them?

 

[Jay Ashworth]

Let me get permission to post the rep plot for the theatre I'm working in most lately, which does lots of (rental, as well as in-house) dance.

Spoilers: 4VLX-3's, 4 VLX-440s, and the rest is S4's and S4Pars.

[ posted below with notes ]

 

[techieman33]

For high sides your much better off with LED lekos than scrollers or seachangers. You might save a little money with a scroller setup, but it's also going to be a lot more limited in functionality. And like the old movers it's outdated tech that's going to be harder and more expensive to find spare parts for, if you can even find them a few years down the road. The seachangers are going to be nearly as expensive as LED lekos and could be more expensive if you have to buy new. They also won't be nearly as bright, especially with the more saturated colors.

 

[SteveB]

Ditto Mike's and other responses. It would involve a major labor expense to keep it all running long term.

I've thought about it for my plot (in the years when we had grant money coming in) and decided it was not worth it.

The biggest issue in my mind is what do you do that needs the capability of movers all over the plot ?. I recall when we got our Aura's and fell in love with them. The PM immediately wanted to replace all 48 of our S4 Par dance plot back lights with 16 Aura's and I said No. For one thing it takes very little time to focus an S4 Par and the Aura's likely wouldn't be actually moving during an event, they'd focus to the rep. back light focus and then just change color. Lot of money to do that. If it were Seattle Rep. or American Dance Festival or something and doing different focuses for ea. company in rep., then I could understand it, but not for a one-off or company that comes in for a week.

I have a very limited FOH hang and cannot do a pit/apron focus at the same time as an on-stage focus and in this case, would kill for 2 FOH trusses of a bright arc lamp ML with shutters. Then I could do a button push and have pit area focus for our children's theater shows, then another push and have a 3 or 4 color front wash for dance. That would make sense as the lighting is limited by the architectural limitation if insufficient FOH positions.

I could also see a set of ML fixtures with shutters at 1/4L and C/L as you can re-purpose during an event for different pieces. Note however that it's a PITA to keep track of the shutter movement of an overhead fixture. When the fixture swings DS, the shutter control orientation swaps. Then it's a guessing game for the programmer to figure out which encoder is doing what, while the LD is on deck calling it. The programmer at NYC's City Center commented on this problem a decade ago, his Obsession was in a room SR. It takes much longer to do this kind of thing then directing an electrician in a bucket, as BTW.

Would I do LED's ?, yes in a heartbeat. One set of high sides's or pair on the side ladder's replaces a couple of washes of fixtures. So fewer fixtures to focus. A Desire D60 setup with 16 fixtures does replace my 48 S4 pars, so again - a faster focus. Money well spent here, IMO.

 

[Jay Ashworth]

The repertory hang for Hillsborough Community College, Ybor City, with these notes from LD and theatre manager Keith Arsenault:

Trim height of Electrics 1 – 3 22’6”
Trim height of Electric 4 approx 24’ 2

Notable info from Line Schedule ( from smoke pocket / plaster line )
1 Electric 2’ 4”
2 Electric 9’10”
3 Electric 16’4”
4 Electric 22’ 4”
Cyclorama 23’4” 3

Warm / Cool wash colours vary according to production.

Plot shows MR16 cyc washes as Red / Blue / Amber
more usually coloured as RED – (R 120 ) BLUE (R 121 ) GREEN (R122 )
plus an additional piece of R 132 in each frame

Venue regularly used for classical music concerts / recitals Top Light Colour pulled for such event