Crown CTs1200 pip2 swap

Critter55

Member
Hey everyone. Our church has a Crown CTs 1200 amp with a pip2 that accepts bare wires with scew in terminals for channel inputs. I would like to switch it to XLR to maintain system uniformity in regards to I/Os. My question is can the pip2 modules just be swapped or is there configurations that need to be done for this to work. Thanks.
 
The pip cards are plug and play. Do you plan on moving your amps a ton? There isn’t a ton of value in changing amp inputs in the grand scheme of an installed system, especially on a discontinued model - unless you got some especially great deals on the pip cards.

If it’s a troubleshooting thing I’d just make Phoenix to XLR adapters to Qbox the line and tone the amp.
 
The pip cards are plug and play. Do you plan on moving your amps a ton? There isn’t a ton of value in changing amp inputs in the grand scheme of an installed system, especially on a discontinued model - unless you got some especially great deals on the pip cards.

If it’s a troubleshooting thing I’d just make Phoenix to XLR adapters to Qbox the line and tone the amp.
@Critter55 I'm old with compromised vision (Stroke recovery). I MAY be wrong. I think what @themuzicman is trying to tell you is: When you're looking at your "pip2 that accepts bare wires with screw in terminals for channel inputs" you're looking at the screw connections on a plug-able / removable Euro block connector. Phoenix is one manufacturer as are AMP and 1/2 a dozen other connector manufacturers.

As @themuzicman posted: Crown's CTS line were designed / intended to be mounted within racks installed for fixed installation use.
As @themuzicman went on to suggest; you could easily make 2 Phoenix to XLR adapters, 1 to Qbox the incoming line and 1 to test tone the amp. Alternately you could make a Phoenix adapter to an XLR of either gender then use a 'gender bender' / turnaround in lieu of a 2nd Phoenix.

Possibly (likely) you don't realize you're looking at a 3 contact connector which is designed to be unplugged from your PIP module for ease of wiring then re-mated. They're designed to be unplugged and plugged 2 or 3 times a year. With care, they'll easily survive monthly use for 3 or 4 years.
They're NOT designed for portable (lug around the building / tote from weekly bar to bar gigs) use.
That's not to say you couldn't use them in this manner, only to suggest NOTHING about Crown's CTS series was designed / intended to survive such use.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
 
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Hey everyone. Our church has a Crown CTs 1200 amp with a pip2 that accepts bare wires with scew in terminals for channel inputs. I would like to switch it to XLR to maintain system uniformity in regards to I/Os. My question is can the pip2 modules just be swapped or is there configurations that need to be done for this to work. Thanks.

Uh, "uniformity"? If it's working and isn't being moved about - it's uniformly connecting the signal to the amplfier.

Unless I'm missing something, the answer is yes, they're pretty much direct swap items. There *may* be a gain selection switch on the PIP card PCB - consult the instructions that come with the card. And really, don't buy the card unless you're putting this amp into portable service. Spend the PIP card money on a microphone or fix some broken intercom packs.
 
I should have mentioned that this is a spare amp. Everything else in the rack uses xlr. We had an issue a bit ago where we an amp failure right before a service and it would have been easier to just insert this amp in an empty bay in the rack and swap the xlr's from the other amp to this one. Also, I have a bit of OCD when it comes to stuff like this. I have seen xlr pip2 modules on Ebay for less than $100 and figured it may make things simpler in the future.
 
@Critter55 I'm old with compromised vision (Stroke recovery). I MAY be wrong. I think what @themuzicman is trying to tell you is: When you're looking at your "pip2 that accepts bare wires with screw in terminals for channel inputs" you're looking at the screw connections on a plug-able / removable Euro block connector. Phoenix is one manufacturer as are AMP and 1/2 a dozen other connector manufacturers.

As @themuzicman posted: Crown's CTS line were designed / intended to be mounted within racks installed for fixed installation use.
As @themuzicman went on to suggest; you could could easily make 2 Phoenix to XLR adapters, 1 to Qbox the incoming line and 1 to test tone the amp. Alternately you could make a Phoenix adapter to an XLR of either gender then use a 'gender bender' / turnaround in lieu of a 2nd Phoenix.

Possibly (likely) you don't realize you're looking at a 3 contact connector which is designed to be unplugged from your PIP module for ease of wiring then re-mated. They're designed to be unplugged and plugged 2 or 3 times a year. With care, they'll easily survive monthly use for 3 or 4 years.
They're NOT designed for portable (lug around the building / tote from weekly bar to bar gigs) use.
That's not to say you couldn't use them in this manner, only to suggest NOTHING about Crown's CTS series was designed / intended to survive such use.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
Thanks for the great info Ron. You are spot on that I didn't know they could be unplugged from the pip module.
 
Thanks for the great info Ron. You are spot on that I didn't know they could be unplugged from the pip module.
@Critter55 Was this vision compromised / impaired geezer correct?
Are your Euro blocks of the detachable / re-pluggable type??
Have you actually checked this, NOT all are???

The further you delve into Euro blocks (more commonly referred to as Phoenix similarly to all facial tissues are Kleenex) you'll learn there are subtle variations in pin to pin spacing.
They're available in both (probably originally) Metric and Imperial spacings.
The spacings are EXTREMELY close:
- Two contacts of either 'flavor' will couple.
- Three contacts will intermate with extreme effort and is NOT in any way recommended due to TOTAL distortion of the materials.
- Both 'flavors' are available in a variety of colours (You're north of lil' Donnie's walls thus I can spell colour with a 'u').
- Never assume ALL your North American products are Imperial.
- Never assume All your 'off shore' products Metric (It likely depends on the market they're intended for or a distributor's preference).
- NEVER assume green is always metric / orange is Imperial. Similarly with black / grey / natural / beige.
- Nah! That'd be too conveniently logical.
If I've made this all TLDR confusing; I'm sure @MNicolai , at any of our other consultants, @TimMc , @themuzicman , et al, will be happy to simplify / 'cut to the chase'.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
 
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The phoenix plug needs to stay on the equipment. I only disconnect them for convenience when attaching wires or taking them off. If a plug gets lost, it is near impossible to buy another that fits, without getting it from the equipment manufacturer. There are too many brands and no standards. It would be nice if they all had a brand and part number visible, but that is rare.

If the equipment with a phoenix is plugged and unplugged a lot, add a second pair of connectors, like XLRs
 
You can always make an XLR to bare wire adapter and land it on the screw terminals. Like this.

1616802790300.png


For $6, you can buy one for each channel input. As @FMEng said, sometimes the contact spacing and sizing is tricky to match, but it will probably work. There are a bunch of different sizes/spacing, but when it comes to power amplifier inputs there aren't *that* many different ones between various manufacturers. If it doesn't fit your amp, you can unscrew the Phoenix and replace it from the one on your amp. No PIP card replacement necessary. Those can just live with your amp from here on out.

I carry a few male/female versions of that in the common Phoenix sizes for a few different manufacturers so I can easily jack in and out of any system on short notice.
 
@Critter55 Was this vision compromised / impaired geezer correct?
Are your Euro blocks of the detachable / re-pluggable type??
Have you actually checked this, NOT all are???

The further you delve into Euro blocks (more commonly referred to as Phoenix similarly to all facial tissues are Kleenex) you'll learn there are subtle variations in pin to pin spacing.
They're available in both (probably originally) Metric and Imperial spacings.
The spacings are EXTREMELY close:
- Two contacts of either 'flavor' will couple.
- Three contacts will intermate with extreme effort and is NOT in any way recommended due to TOTAL distortion of the materials.
- Both 'flavors' are available in a variety of colours (You're north of lil' Donnie's walls thus I can spell colour with a 'u').
- Never assume ALL your North American products are Imperial.
- Never assume All your 'off shore' products Metric (It likely depends on the market they're intended for or a distributor's preference).
- NEVER assume green is always metric / orange is Imperial. Similarly with black / grey / natural / beige.
- Nah! That'd be too conveniently logical.
If I've made this all TLDR confusing; I'm sure @MNicolai , at any of our other consultants, @TimMc , @themuzicman , et al, will be happy to simplify / 'cut to the chase'.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
Hey Ron. I haven't had a chance to check out if it is removable. I really do appreciate the info. I work at a commercial truck repair shop and I have learned to take every opportunity to learn new things. You never know what you will stumble onto in the future.
 
You can always make an XLR to bare wire adapter and land it on the screw terminals. Like this.

View attachment 21733

For $6, you can buy one for each channel input. As @FMEng said, sometimes the contact spacing and sizing is tricky to match, but it will probably work. There are a bunch of different sizes/spacing, but when it comes to power amplifier inputs there aren't *that* many different ones between various manufacturers. If it doesn't fit your amp, you can unscrew the Phoenix and replace it from the one on your amp. No PIP card replacement necessary. Those can just live with your amp from here on out.

I carry a few male/female versions of that in the common Phoenix sizes for a few different manufacturers so I can easily jack in and out of any system on short notice.
This looks like what I was thinking of doing. Thanks for posting.
 
I've got nine (9!) CTs amps (all 12-15 years old) in for service right now, so I offer you this:

1. Be careful with used PIP cards -- there was a TD from Harman about a known heat issue for all models of CTs amps that requires the replacement of several board-level components due to heat fatigue (and then some others so the fan comes on sooner, stays on longer); if your eBay PIP card hasn't had this service performed, there's a good chance it will fail when introduced to a new environment.
2. Also, if you haven't been turning the amps on/off -- or if you do so via your electrical breakers, not the amp's power switch -- then don't touch the power switch. There's a plastic rod that connects the button on the front the the actual switch on the PSU and it gets brittle over time. The first time you use the power switch after an extended period of dis-use, that rod will likely crack and fail, and now your amp is either stuck On (inconvenient) or stuck Off (major PITA).
3. Parts are still available, but becoming rarer. The CTs line is now 6 or 7 years past disco, so officially EOL; that means that line-specific parts (like the power switch and it's plastic rod) are going to disappear soon.
 

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