Loudspeakers Crown TI-6000

Brenden Friedel

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Jun 2, 2017
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Orlando
So at my school, we have 2 Crown TI-6000. These are powered using a Dante switch. Recently anytime we turn on the system using a Crestron system it sometimes doesn't turn on the amps or it only turns on one amp. This means only one array can be powered and since we have to that's not good. Anyone know a fix for this? I've tried restarting the amp. Note the power of the amp is on but the screen doesn't light up or the switch isn't green as usual. (How the system is run) Cat 5 or 6 runs from the booth where the System processor is. Then runs into a switch which then runs into the power supply [each supply has its own cat 5] These then switch on the switched outlets powering the amps and stages boxes. the audio outputs from the soundboard are also cat 5 out and plug into the stageboxes which hold the outputs for the speakers.
 

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TJCornish

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St. Paul, MN
These are not "TI-6000", but Crown I-Tech 6000s, the original generation ITech released around 2004 or so.

Not sure what you mean by being "powered" using a Dante switch - Dante doesn't provide power, and the ITechs do not directly support Dante even for data. I presume they are plugged into a outlet switched by a relay. However that relay is controlled is immaterial as long as the outlet is being switched on. What model switched outlet is it? Is it a mechanical relay (it should be), or a solid-state relay (not a good thing and could be part of the problem)?

Does this happen always to the same amp? How do you fix it?
 

MNicolai

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Sounds like your Crestron system is sending either TCP/IP commands to the amp or to a BSS DSP that is then relaying those commands TCP/IP to the amp, but somehow that network connection has become lost and the amplifier is stuck in standby mode.

Has anyone been messing with the network settings and changed the problem amplifier's IP address?

From the front panel, can you check the IP addresses of each amplifier? Are they sequentially numbered?

Did somebody add a new router to the network that may be issuing DHCP addresses and reassigning devices on the network to new IP's?

Seems from power indicator light being on that your amplifier is receiving power -- so the odds this is an issue with how the Crestron system is connected seem low. Seems like this is a problem at the amplifier.

This theory is in line with Crown's operations manual for that amplifier, though I expect if you start stabbing at buttons that the backlight on the display should light up.

upload_2018-1-18_15-22-21.png
 

Brenden Friedel

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Jun 2, 2017
Location
Orlando
Sounds like your Crestron system is sending either TCP/IP commands to the amp or to a BSS DSP that is then relaying those commands TCP/IP to the amp, but somehow that network connection has become lost and the amplifier is stuck in standby mode.

Has anyone been messing with the network settings and changed the problem amplifier's IP address?

From the front panel, can you check the IP addresses of each amplifier? Are they sequentially numbered?

Did somebody add a new router to the network that may be issuing DHCP addresses and reassigning devices on the network to new IP's?

Seems from power indicator light being on that your amplifier is receiving power -- so the odds this is an issue with how the Crestron system is connected seem low. Seems like this is a problem at the amplifier.

This theory is in line with Crown's operations manual for that amplifier, though I expect if you start stabbing at buttons that the backlight on the display should light up.

View attachment 15885
From my understanding, there is no wireless router. there may be a router that is not broadcasting a signal. It is being controlled by a touch panel and from what i know the only people who have access to set the ip is the people who did the install. I can check the ip address on the amps but not at the moment. It eventually turned on and is functional but is still a inconvenience since we have to wait half an hour for it to turn on
 

Brenden Friedel

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Joined
Jun 2, 2017
Location
Orlando
These are not "TI-6000", but Crown I-Tech 6000s, the original generation ITech released around 2004 or so.

Not sure what you mean by being "powered" using a Dante switch - Dante doesn't provide power, and the ITechs do not directly support Dante even for data. I presume they are plugged into a outlet switched by a relay. However that relay is controlled is immaterial as long as the outlet is being switched on. What model switched outlet is it? Is it a mechanical relay (it should be), or a solid-state relay (not a good thing and could be part of the problem)?

Does this happen always to the same amp? How do you fix it?
The power for the amps are on two power supplys (shown in the picture above) They are being switched as in it does its power cycle and turns on everything one by one so it doesen't overload the outlet. The Dante/ Crestron system tells the power supply to switch on as well as the stage boxes. The output for the speakers is run out of stagebox 2 7 for subs 8 for left and 9 for right then those go to the bacl of the amps and plug into the analog inputs.
 

Brenden Friedel

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Joined
Jun 2, 2017
Location
Orlando
Sounds like your Crestron system is sending either TCP/IP commands to the amp or to a BSS DSP that is then relaying those commands TCP/IP to the amp, but somehow that network connection has become lost and the amplifier is stuck in standby mode.

Has anyone been messing with the network settings and changed the problem amplifier's IP address?

From the front panel, can you check the IP addresses of each amplifier? Are they sequentially numbered?

Did somebody add a new router to the network that may be issuing DHCP addresses and reassigning devices on the network to new IP's?

Seems from power indicator light being on that your amplifier is receiving power -- so the odds this is an issue with how the Crestron system is connected seem low. Seems like this is a problem at the amplifier.

This theory is in line with Crown's operations manual for that amplifier, though I expect if you start stabbing at buttons that the backlight on the display should light up.

View attachment 15885
Note the amps can be networked. but they are being run using analog inputs. So if they are stuck in standby mode and then comes on about 25 mins later what would be a fix to that?
 

FMEng

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It could be a faulty SurgeX box that doesn't want to turn on, or it could be whatever controls the turn on sequence is set improperly (minutes instead of seconds). My guess is it's a Crestron setup issue, so it probably needs a visit from the installer to correct.
 

TJCornish

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Mar 27, 2012
Location
St. Paul, MN
It could be a faulty SurgeX box that doesn't want to turn on, or it could be whatever controls the turn on sequence is set improperly (minutes instead of seconds). My guess is it's a Crestron setup issue, so it probably needs a visit from the installer to correct.
The amps appear to have power, they just don't finish booting. If this behavior continues with the Ethernet cable unplugged, it's time for the amp(s) to take a ride back to Crown. If the bad behavior only happens when the Ethernet cable is connected, then there might be something more subtle going on.

Unless this install is using CobraNet for audio transport (not likely), the OP can probably leave the amps un-networked.
 

Brenden Friedel

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Jun 2, 2017
Location
Orlando
The amps appear to have power, they just don't finish booting. If this behavior continues with the Ethernet cable unplugged, it's time for the amp(s) to take a ride back to Crown. If the bad behavior only happens when the Ethernet cable is connected, then there might be something more subtle going on.

Unless this install is using CobraNet for audio transport (not likely), the OP can probably leave the amps un-networked.
There is no network connection running to the amps just the xlr ins
 

MNicolai

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There is no network connection running to the amps just the xlr ins
Then there's really no special sauce hidden control going on here. If the amplifier has a 30min boot time from the time the SurgeX kicks on or the time you plug the amp into the wall, then the amplifier needs some love from the manufacturer.

What happens if you stab the amp's facepanel switch on and off? Does it also take 30min to cycle when you use that switch instead of power cycling the SurgeX via the Crestron?
 
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Brenden Friedel

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Joined
Jun 2, 2017
Location
Orlando
Then there's really no special sauce hidden control going on here. If the amplifier has a 30min boot time from the time the SurgeX kicks on or the time you plug the amp into the wall, then the amplifier needs some love from the manufacturer.

What happens if you stab the amp's facepanel switch on and off? Does it also take 30min to cycle when you use that switch instead of power cycling the SurgeX via the Crestron?
Ive never tried. I can try for you tomorrow and let you know.
 

TimMc

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Feb 15, 2017
From my understanding, there is no wireless router. there may be a router that is not broadcasting a signal. It is being controlled by a touch panel and from what i know the only people who have access to set the ip is the people who did the install. I can check the ip address on the amps but not at the moment. It eventually turned on and is functional but is still a inconvenience since we have to wait half an hour for it to turn on
<sigh>

A *router* doesn't have wireless. A router in an interface between different networks that directs traffic between those separate networks (like the WAN that is the "internet" and your LAN -Local Area Network - that your computers, phones and other devices connect to on your property.

A WAP - Wireless Access Point - is the radio system that connects devices to you LAN without data cabling to those devices.

Switch - delivers TCP/IP data packets in your LAN to your wired devices. Most consumer "wireless routers" have a 4 port switch, too.

Unfortunately the consumers have decided that the combined router/WAP device between the cable modem or DSL box is 'router'. When talking to the Best Buy kids that's fine but in commercial/professional use the terms have very specific IT industry definitions. /pedantry

I-Tech amps do not have Dante *anything*. Cobranet, yes... but the RJ45 port on the back of the amp is for control, monitoring and firmware updates. No audio passes through it. I-Techs have AES3 inputs for digital audio.

As a long time Crown user I'll say that the amp likely needs a trip back to Crown. Harman has closed the Crown facility in Elkhart, IN. The new Harman Pro service number is 844-776-4899. If you have previously dealt with Kevin Gring @ Crown, he is still with them until June 2018...
 

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