Curious . . What brand gel and what does it cost?

Go to your room, you're on a time out.
 
SteveB, didn't mean to touch a nerve. Focusing 25 units an hour is painful? For buffet lighting in ballrooms, hotels here CHARGE an hour (at $50-90) labor to focus 6 units/hour. I average about 20units/hour, just me and a Scissor lift, depending on how crowded with tables and chairs the room is. (And whether or not I'm on overtime yet.;))

I've often wondered the wisdom of R132 in every ERS also, as you have to pull it during focus, get a "blue-line" edge, make shutter cuts, put it back in, and then often re-adjust shutters. AND sometimes still "run the barrel." (Should have been), good thinking to put it in an extra frame.
DO share more of your rants/war stories in the future. I think we all find them entertaining, both to learn from, and to commiserate with.:lol: Significant others just don't seem to understand, sometimes.

Our setup when focusing is it's almost always a tour or in-house design. Tours generally know where the stuff is going so while it's a bit slower then in-house, it's usually about 2 minutes a unit or quicker. In house is 30 seconds to 1 minute. Its a clear flat stage floor, nothing in the way. We use a 2000 lbs JLG self powered lift that really speeds things up (no - go to height, focus a few units - drop down, release outriggers, move, crank outriggers, go to height, etc...) as well as electricians that focus here all the time. Thus we can be fast as we have good control over all the variables that would normally slow things down - no sound check noise, no road cases or speaker stacks in the way or audio/video cables all over the deck.

The R132 in the ERS we almost always see spec'd as "in case we need it". This was about the first show that had it in every unit ahead of time (The GAM870 PLUS R119 in same frame note in the hookup). A method I've seem work very well is at the Santa Fe Opera, where they keep every ERS at hard edge, all the time and add frost after shutter cuts. This LD for the Acting Company was proficient at knowing that he had to bring in the cuts a few inches to allow for the diffusion, though that didn't work for the FOH with spill all over the Proscenium and 1st border. Adding diffusion to every frame in a advance is not a method I recommend for a lot of reasons. ETC and Altman have 2 slots for color frames on their units for a reason.

And back to the OP, I buy lamps from Bulbtronics. I've been contemplating buying gel from them as well, as they can get it to me in a day, but they are not (to my knowledge) GAM nor Apollo dealers. They should be. I'm of the opinion that the more choices the better and I would never dictate to a visiting LD that they change a color choice just because it's what I have in stock (well - not usually for that reason), as I can order. I still need the dealer to have all the range though and a reasonable stock.

Steve B.
 
Go to your room, you're on a time out.
Yes, that works. PUNISH him by sending him to his room, where he has a laptop, internet, plasma TV, DVD, cable TV, TiVo, WiFi, iPod, Playstation, 8-tracks and cassettes in stereo...oh, won't you staaaay, just a little bit longerrrr... But I digress, whatever happened to standing in a corner, with your nose holding a penny against the wall, and if it dropped you got another 15 minutes? That's the problem with kids today--no discipline.

As I said, I have no use for 1/3 or 1/6 CTB, CTO, or -Grn. And my GAM book doesn't have any four-digit CT O/B. So let me get this, GAM uses three digit, four digit, and two-two digit for diffusion??? Crazy. And when SteveB mentioned G842, I will always think of that as a Violet/Lavender. Just like I always thought R132 was a nice blue, like L132. Confusing. Everyone, switchover to Apollo, right now. Just throw everything else away and start over. Tomorrow we will convert to the metric system. Just like removing a Band-Aid. Just do it quick and get it over with.

SteveB, just about every corporate show I've done in recent memory has L202 and R132 (used to be R119, before that R114) in every S4. Really annoying to tell the focuser to pull the color and run the barrel while he's on the truss, but it happens! Normally corporate shows (arena and ballroom) are focused from a scissor or articulating-boom lift, as they don't want to pay the "high-time." Sounds like you have a good focus system. I think I tried to get Grog12 to buy a lift like yours, but he bought, or already had the Genie version instead. Did the local guys complain any when you eliminated the ladder crew?

Icewolf08, Van, others, how many units do you typically focus in an hour? Depends on the designer, right? I'm sure it's slower than SteveB as it's not a tour. One-offs can be the fastest or the slowest. But dance plots always focus fairly quickly.
 
8-tracks and cassettes in stereo
Ah..you remind me.
Now the seats are all empty
Let the roadies take the stage
Pack it up and tear it down
They're the first to come and last to leave
Working for that minimum wage
They'll set it up in another town
Tonight the people were so fine
They waited there in line
And when they got up on their feet they made the show
And that was sweet...
But I can hear the sound
Of slamming doors and folding chairs
And that's a sound they'll never know
Now roll them cases out and lift them amps
Haul them trusses down and get'em up them ramps
'Cause when it comes to moving me
You guys are the champs
But when that last guitar's been packed away
You know that I still want to play
So just make sure you got it all set to go
Before you come for my piano
But the band's on the bus
And they're waiting to go
We've got to drive all night and do a show in Chicago
or Detroit, I don't know
We do so many shows in a row
And these towns all look the same
We just pass the time in our hotel rooms
And wander 'round backstage
Till those lights come up and we hear that crowd
And we remember why we came
Now we got country and western on the bus
R and B, we got disco in eight tracks and cassettes in stereo
We've got rural scenes & magazines
We've got truckers on the CB
We've got Richard Pryor on the video
We got time to think of the ones we love
While the miles roll away
But the only time that seems too short
Is the time that we get to play
People you've got the power over what we do
You can sit there and wait
Or you can pull us through
Come along, sing the song
You know you can't go wrong
'Cause when that morning sun comes beating down
You're going to wake up in your town
But we'll be scheduled to appear
A thousand miles away from here
 
Jackson Browne, yeah! Good music, and appreciation for our jobs. Now if only he would stop playing the piano so we can get it in the truck...
 
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What's the name of that song...stri...no, that's not it.

And what an f-ing prima donna...
"So just make sure you got it all set to go
Before you come for my piano..."
EVERYONE knows the backline is the FIRST thing on the truck, as it will come off last at the next stop.

"So just be sure you've got it all set to go, before you come for my chain motors"...just doesn't sounds as nice, I guess. Poetic License?


" Working for that minimum wage" Dream on fella, sounds like a producer's greatest wish.

" Now roll them cases out and lift them amps" FORKLIFT. over here!


sorry, couldn't resist. I'll stop now. I could go on..It's tempting, I know. Why did the kids put beans in their ears...
 
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Derek, you're right, I should have sent him to his closet and let the cat have at him. See, "normal" kids like me never had all dem fancy new fangled contraptions in their room.

The GAM book has the four digit CTO is smaller print below the main numbers. Or at least my book does. Does your book say 3/98 on the back? That's all the ones they send me ever say. I can't believe they haven't updated in that long, I'm still trying to get a sample of the new colors.

Whatever, go ahead and hate my 1/3 CTB. Maybe I'll find me a Roscolene book so I can do plots for my lighting class all in Roscolene.

Forklift? My mom worked for FedEx, she always called em Hi-Lows. It's all about the hand truck and hand fork YEAAAAAA!!!
 
Derek, you're right, I should have sent him to his closet and let the cat have at him. See, "normal" kids like me never had all dem fancy new fangled contraptions in their room. I never got sent to my room, I was usually already there, listening to LP records or watching my 13" B&W TV, all three stations.

The GAM book has the four digit CTO is smaller print below the main numbers. Or at least my book does. Does your book say 3/98 on the back? That's all the ones they send me ever say. I can't believe they haven't updated in that long, I'm still trying to get a sample of the new colors. Yes, I have the 3/98 version, nothing like a 10-year-old swatchbook. And if they want me to use the 15xx numbers, why aren't they with the rest of the 15xx's?

Whatever, go ahead and hate my 1/3 CTB. I'd enjoy watching you try to tell the difference between unlabeled cuts of R60, R61, R206, R4215, and L202. Maybe I'll find me a Roscolene book so I can do plots for my lighting class all in Roscolene. No, Cinemoid. Just use all Lee and change the "L1" to "5". I dare you. Send me your plot, just for giggles. Unless you're afraid...:twisted:

Forklift? My mom worked for FedEx, she always called em Hi-Lows. It's all about the hand truck and hand fork YEAAAAAA!!!
I believe Hi-Low is a brand name. I don't know what a hand fork is, you mean pallet jack?. To Hughesie89, one cannot do the Rolling Stones and their 27x 53' trucks without 5 forklifts.
 
Yea pallet jack, my bad.

So, now we're having "name that gel"? Wonderful, even more useless things to do with my time. How do I get to guess? Can I put em on a piece of paper? Feel their weight? I can tell between R60, R61 and R4215. It's the LEE thats going to throw me.
 
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Sounds like you have a good focus system. I think I tried to get Grog12 to buy a lift like yours, but he bought, or already had the Genie version instead. Did the local guys complain any when you eliminated the ladder crew?

No, the crew was fine with it. We transitioned from an old style Genie - that extended sans outriggers, to the JLG self powered. Thus we never needed to hire 3-4 extra's to crank outriggers. The focus session is almost always first to get the overheads and ladders done so the deck is clear for the woodchucks and squeeks, so the crew isn't shorted any hours.

The LD on The Tempest actually wanted 2 focus crews running - one guy on the JLG (plus a spotter on deck) as well as another in the new Genie, with 2-4 to crank. The PM convinced him otherwise as 1) The Genie could never keep up and 2) The Genie was needed on the truss electrics. I understand now that the LD was concerned that his prior focus sessions had taken forever as he was constantly pulling every color on every ERS - even the 1/8 CTB's.

In any event the truss electrics took up a crew of 5 for 1-1/2 hrs.

Rant Mode:

The Tempest had a 32'x25'x9" high deck. Plus a picture frame backdrop made out of 1 ft x 1 ft. black box truss - 2 horizontal sections, one on the floor, one on top with 2 vertical sections L & R supporting, all bolted together, that sat vertically on the US edge of the deck and had a stretched fabric tied to the inside of the truss as backdrop.

Hanging off the US chords of the truss were 7 festoon lamps, big globe lamps with clear glass, hanging down at assorted heights behind the backdrop cloth. The festoon lamps were a mogul screw base socket with 20ft. of 16/2 SJ cable with a male pin connector.

The tour had no cable to run these lamps to house dimmers. They should have built up a bundle that picked up every hanging lamp on the top truss section, run across the top horizontal, then down to the deck as a bundle, with maybe 30 ft. of extension to get to house circuits somewhere. 5 circuits were needed (4 were spec'd).

Instead, while the picture frame truss was being assembled and the backdrop tied on - all while laying horizontal on the stage floor, we tied on the festoons at the appropriate height as indicated by a spike tape on the SJ cord, let all dangle as the entire crew did an Iwo Jima lift to vertical of the structures. Then had a crew in the Genie go up and cable and 2-fer the festoon lamps to 5 circuits from a 6 circuit multi we pulled off our non-used cyc lights (another rant). IMO cable'ing and connecting stuff in the air from a Genie is never fast nor efficient.

It took a long time to rig, as well as slowed down the out as we had to go back an disconnect everything before we could lower the picture frame. Stupid concept not well thought out.

Rant Over, and I'm thinking this is becoming like a bunch of shrink sessions. "So, how do REALLY feel ?."

SB
 
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I buy lamps from Bulbtronics. I've been contemplating buying gel from them as well, as they can get it to me in a day, but they are not (to my knowledge) GAM nor Apollo dealers. They should be. I'm of the opinion that the more choices the better and I would never dictate to a visiting LD that they change a color choice just because it's what I have in stock (well - not usually for that reason), as I can order. I still need the dealer to have all the range though and a reasonable stock.
Steve B.


And while the JIT (Just In Time) philosophy has trickled into our lighting market, we have also caused the dealer not to stock all gobo styles and sizes, as well as gel transmission- because there are SO many choices.

Bulbtronics does sell Apollo gel (normally as a dropshipped item from our place directly to the school/church/theater) in combination with Apollo gobos. It is often less costly from a shipping perspective when a custom gobo will be dropshipped from Apollo anyway- why not save the additional shipping charge from Bulbtronics (or other dealer) and have gobos and gel shipped together for one fee, rather than several shipping fees. (?)
 
Keith is quite right.

Let's look at stocking gel from a dealers perspective.

Apollo offers about 200 colors. What would you suppose would be an appropiate inventory for a dealer to 'have on hand?' 20 sheets per color, 50?

Even at 10 sheets per color we're talking about having 2000 sheets in stock. What's a dealer to do if a customer wants 11 sheets of a particular color? What about colors that rarely sell, you still would have to have them.

For dealers not in major urban centers that have lots of walk-in traffic it simply makes sense to drop ship directly from the manufacturer.
 
Well Keith, while I can see and understand your point, as well as the vendor's, Las Vegas Hotels (and many other markets) are NOT going to accept or change to ApolloGel until there's a stocking dealer in town. I've said before, I've never had a "gel emergency" as in "If I don't get 6 sheets of APXXXX, this show is not going to happen," but consumers still want to know they can run to (insert favorite vendor here) and pick up that last sheet of XXXX.

Too many good ideas, taking this offline now.
 
Well Keith, while I can see and understand your point, as well as the vendor's, Las Vegas Hotels (and many other markets) are NOT going to accept or change to ApolloGel until there's a stocking dealer in town. I've said before, I've never had a "gel emergency" as in "If I don't get 6 sheets of APXXXX, this show is not going to happen," but consumers still want to know they can run to (insert favorite vendor here) and pick up that last sheet of XXXX.
Too many good ideas, taking this offline now.


Yes, your point is very well explained. At the moment there are over 70 stocking dealers for Apollo Gel, with others in transition. The major theater/event cities certainly is a valid point as well.
 
What about the dealers who carry more then one company?

I can think of two in my area that have more then one gel company in stock, and another which has Rosco, Lee, Apollo, and GAM, along with misc. gobos from each. I have also never had an issue going to them at any time and grabbing some sheets. It's pretty crazy when you think about it how much gel they must have sitting around at any one moment. I also wouldn't be surprised if they have gel dropped off to them daily.
 
And while the JIT (Just In Time) philosophy has trickled into our lighting market, we have also caused the dealer not to stock all gobo styles and sizes, as well as gel transmission- because there are SO many choices.
Bulbtronics does sell Apollo gel (normally as a dropshipped item from our place directly to the school/church/theater) in combination with Apollo gobos. It is often less costly from a shipping perspective when a custom gobo will be dropshipped from Apollo anyway- why not save the additional shipping charge from Bulbtronics (or other dealer) and have gobos and gel shipped together for one fee, rather than several shipping fees. (?)

Good to know about Bulbtronics carrying Apollo. Bulbtronics is a company that gives me great service on lamps. I believe my last conversation with them concerning gel, was about GAM in particular, and I'm not sure they carry it.

I actually don't worry if a dealer doesn't have a particular color, as long as they can get it in a timely fashion. I'm certain even the huge dealers in the NYC area run out of stuff all the time. It's really my problem to get the order in early enough to allow time for shipping, though my last show had issues about getting color requests to us in time to not have to pay FedEx overnight, even though we had informed them of the timeline, thus one of the many reasons I was so (and remain) annoyed about the show.

Steve B.
 
I found this PDF on Mike Callahan's site and thought it somewhat pertinent. Mike is very forward thinking, and has done virtually everything, everywhere.
 

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