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Cyc Light Product Development

Discussion in 'Lighting and Electrics' started by SELECON, Apr 8, 2009.

  1. SELECON

    SELECON Member

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    Hello All,

    I’m currently in the preliminary stages of redesigning the Selecon Aurora Cyc, Flood, Ground row luminaries which are now getting to the to the stage where a revamp would be beneficial.

    Selecon have already had various meetings with lighting professionals to try and gauge the success of the existing Aurora product in comparison to competitors lights etc. I would now like to expand on this by giving you the opportunity to tell us what you like/dislike/want in our cyc products and also how it compares to competitors products.

    In your opinion what is the best Cyc light around and why?

    Do you have any Issues with:

    Performance
    Quality
    Size
    Weight
    Configurations
    Look
    Functionality
    Maintenance issues
    Wiring issues
    Relamping
    Colour frames
    Additional accessories
    Etc etc

    If you had ever said “wouldn’t it be good if ……” this is the time to tell us. All and every comment will be appreciated, as we realise that you are the guys who are really in the know regarding the functionality of theatrical luminaries and ultimately have a large influence in the purchasing of any products.

    Even if you have never used a Selecon product, your general opinions on Cycs would be of great help. By you giving us feedback now I hope you will see the benefits in future products.

    Thanks for your time.

    Duncan Dore
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2009
  2. icewolf08

    icewolf08 CBMod CB Mods

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    Duncan, welcome to CB, it is great to have a representative from Selecon as we often promote your products. Hopefully you will get some useful responses from our members who use your products. I just wanted to let you know that I am going to edit the title of your thread so that it is not all caps, I don't think it will lessen the exciting nature of the thread, and it will look more natural.
     
  3. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

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    I've never used Selecon fixtures. Played with them at trade shows, and have been impressed with their quality, but that quality comes at a cost premium that I'm not sure is warranted.

    My favorite cyc lights (two different ones as I don't think it's possible for the same fixture to serve the different requirements between top and bottom).
    Top: Strand/Quartzcolor/Ianiro Iris.
    Bottom: Strand/Quartzcolor/Ianiro Orion.

    I don't think either are available any longer from Strand. If I were buying, I would certainly look at units from Selecon and L&E. Because I rent, I'm at the mercy of what the shops own (which is often the least-expensive-to-purchase unit, i.e. Altman SkyCyc and CycStrip).

    So whatever you do to the Aurora line, make it less expensive to purchase in the US. The mains power disconnection microswitch for example, is an unnecessary feature that I don't want, if it's going to increase the cost.
    Interesting to hear a manufacturer admit that there's room for improvement, but, have the laws of optics changed dramatically since the Berkey-Colortran FarCyc of the late 1970s?
     
  4. chris325

    chris325 Active Member

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    One feature that would be nice for a Selecon cyc light to have would be its functionality in tight spaces. I've dealt with this a ton, and the Altmans that we use don't do too great a job of creating a decent wash.
     
  5. SELECON

    SELECON Member

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    Cheers Derek. Cost is always a challenge, especially with developing products and trying to improve on the status quo. This is where the balancing act of what is needed and what is on the wishlist comes into play but obviously still developing and moving forward.

    Your comments regarding the microswitch are interesting and certainly for you it sounds as if it would be good if it was an optional feature. Therefore you didnt have to pay for it. Selecon on the whole is known for its safety aspects (cool touch, microswitches etc) which is a positive in alot of markets. However it is food for thought maybe it could be optional.

    Yes your quite correct the laws of physics havent changed too much but the task is with making efficiencys in what we are doing whether it be the notorious W to lumens issue or just thinking/designing smarter for our time/money.
     
  6. SELECON

    SELECON Member

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    thanks chris for your comments, it has been noted.
     
  7. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

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    Of course, I'm not saying that the microswitch is a bad feature, but as Selecon is the only major manufacturer doing it, in the US technicians are taught (or should be being taught) to always unplug a fixture before relamping it. I don't want to have to add the disclaimer, "Unless it's a Selecon," and then have students/volunteers/IA stagehands remember "I have to unplug everything except Selecon when relamping," so at that point the switch becomes superfluous.

    I have a similar sentiment regarding your fixtures with the built-in safety cable. Yes it's neat, but it also adds to the cost, and I have no problems using an external safety, especially if lower cost means I can afford more fixtures.

    Now something that will certainly add to the cost, but may be worth it: How about an asymmetric cyc fixture with a dichroic reflector? What about a lamp base down/45° dicro mirror ala the Pacific line for cyc lights?

    Is there a filament design more efficient than the FFT? (Much like the HPL's Four Source filament is more efficient than the Coiled Coil of the FEL family.)

    And finally, how about a dimmable plasma light source in an asymmetric-reflector fixture? Perhaps with Seachanger Xtreme Green technology?
    Coemar Panorama Power Cycs were quite the rage for a short time, but the fad seems to be passed, and all cycs I've seen recently on Rock tours have been lit with LEDs, for better or worse.
     
  8. gafftaper

    gafftaper Senior Team Senior Team Fight Leukemia

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    Derek brings up a great point. If you are really going to build a better cyc light. Forget incandescence. Give us a reasonably priced and powerful option from Plasma or LED. I don't need color mixing... keep it cheap. Give me a source that actually matches the performance of an incandescent and I can put gel in it myself. It'll be cool, energy efficient, and fit right in with the rest of my inventory... and unlike the other LED products I don't want to pay $1000 per foot to light a cyc.
     
  9. BillESC

    BillESC Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    Would you be willing to spend $ 200.00 per foot?
     
  10. MNicolai

    MNicolai Well-Known Member Fight Leukemia

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    Welcome to CB, Duncan. It's always awesome to have company reps on the forums here that we can talk to about their products and ask questions to.

    As Derek was getting at though, the laws of physics remain the same, and some light sources don't make for decent dimming, and as a result can't be color mixed. I believe Lifi is that way, where it only dims down to a certain percentage before it stops functioning. LED's are where it's at for the time being because they can be dimmed, and I think it's a step in the wrong direction to get white LED strips with gel frames. Not to say it isn't possible, but I don't see any company doing that without losing credibility in the industry, short of some shoddy chinese group. Even with the LED's though, I haven't seen any fixtures yet that didn't look choppy while they're transitioning through a dimming curve.

    They just loaded us with Altman SkyCyc's in our new venue here and their fatal flaw is that the install for the electric they hang on is too close to the cyc fixtures so they don't have nearly enough spread on them to cover enough distance horizontally or vertically. Other than that, my experience is primarily with L&E mini-strips and Strand Iris fixtures. The Iris fixtures work alright, but they have a terrible safety-clip design on them and I'm tired of changing those lamps go out and having to spend so much time realigning the fixtures on the cyc after having done so. I think the only thing worse than a cyc light going out is a followspot lamp, because it sticks out like a sore thumb, which is all the more reason move away from conventional light sources and towards something more dependable.

    L&E mini-strips have been great to me, providing excellent, even washes. My complaints lie in the fixture design. My issues with them are that they're heavy, bulky fixtures, and when hung, there's hardly a good way to safety cable them with any real feeling of safety, and there's more that I hate then changing even one color in them, because then I have to change gels for 80' of fixtures. Another reason to stray from conventional sources. Hmm, I'm beginning to notice a pattern...
     
  11. David Ashton

    David Ashton Active Member

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    The Quartzcolour Iris is easily the best unit I have used, its' 40 year old design is still better than anything I have seen, why? well the light is even and most important the gel is large enough and far enough away from the lamp that an ordinary dark blue gel will last a very long time and not start melting halfway through act 2.
    An acid test of any light you make should be that standard Lee 119 will not burn, shrink or fade after 10 hours of continuous use.
    Lights which need new gel fitting, every few days, are extremely expensive units, at any price.
    Given that a Led with a real CRI has not yet been made, we won't hold our breath on that option.
    Incidently I was one of your first agents, when your product range was 3 "economy" lights, 1/2k, 1k and 2k Fresnels.
     
  12. SELECON

    SELECON Member

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    Cheers David,

    Ill keep you posted with how this project goes, hopefully you'll see some improvements/developments for you comments.

    Regards

    Duncan
     

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