Darn Lights Misbehaving!

Robert F Jarvis

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2017
Location
Sebring, FL, USA
Well, maybe its not the lights but me. I hung 5 MLs obviously upside down and with their fronts (the side with the LED menu/address panel in etc.) facing upstage. But I just can't get the darn things to act like I think they should. If I turn them on and point them down with a narrow beam I would have thought moving tilt would swing the beam down and then up along the center line of the stage. But these guys travel at an angle. It's something to do with the axis the lamp house moves around for tilting, not being 90 deg to the up stage down stage. Not really sure of where to begin. Any ML gurus out there have any words of wisdom how they set up new MLs? At the moment I pull my Pan and Tilts and these things are like taming a bucking bronco!
 

ChrisB_SanDiego

Active Member
Joined
Apr 6, 2017
Location
San Diego, CA
To me this sounds like there's an issue at the fixture itself. Some things to consider.

1. Make sure your fixtures aren't in an overlapping DMX range and they are all in the same channel mode and that you have the correct channel mode patched.
2. Make sure the menu of the fixture that pan and tilt all have the same inversion setting, either all on or all off: Movers that I frequently use have these 5 variants...
Pan inversion
Tilt inversion
Pan and Tilt inversion
Pan Offset
Tilt Offset
3. Check that all fixtures have the same firmware.
4. Make sure to terminate the last fixture.
5. Since you are using EOS, make sure that your Focus Pallets are not By Type and you also might want to delete the fixtures from the Home Preset if they are in them.
6. Try a different mode. Some of the fixture profiles in EOS are just wrong or outdated, switching to a different mode might help. It's also worth verifying that the fixture profile in EOS is the same as it is in the movers manual.


Lastly... when in doubt, always start with a known good. take one light down and connect it directly to the board. If it works than your issues lay elsewhere in the chain... (dirty signal, bad cable, etc..).
It's also possible that the fixture enters into slave or sound mode automatically unless you specifically disable those features (Cameo Lights :p ).
 

Robert F Jarvis

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2017
Location
Sebring, FL, USA
To me this sounds like there's an issue at the fixture itself. Some things to consider.

1. Make sure your fixtures aren't in an overlapping DMX range and they are all in the same channel mode and that you have the correct channel mode patched.
2. Make sure the menu of the fixture that pan and tilt all have the same inversion setting, either all on or all off: Movers that I frequently use have these 5 variants...
Pan inversion
Tilt inversion
Pan and Tilt inversion
Pan Offset
Tilt Offset
3. Check that all fixtures have the same firmware.
4. Make sure to terminate the last fixture.
5. Since you are using EOS, make sure that your Focus Pallets are not By Type and you also might want to delete the fixtures from the Home Preset if they are in them.
6. Try a different mode. Some of the fixture profiles in EOS are just wrong or outdated, switching to a different mode might help. It's also worth verifying that the fixture profile in EOS is the same as it is in the movers manual.


Lastly... when in doubt, always start with a known good. take one light down and connect it directly to the board. If it works than your issues lay elsewhere in the chain... (dirty signal, bad cable, etc..).
It's also possible that the fixture enters into slave or sound mode automatically unless you specifically disable those features (Cameo Lights :p ).
There is some really good stuff here. The 5 lamps are all working well for colors etc and the P&T do move things so I'm sure there is no DMX overlap. And that terminate thing has slapped me on the wrist a couple of times so no problem there. I'm going to lower a bar so I can see what's happening to the lamp body from the booth. I'll power off 4 of the blighters and see what the single one does. Yes, I have met Profiles that were not just off for some of the inexpensive lamps e.g. Lixada ML's and resorted to building my own. But these guys are "Ridgyards" and as mentioned all else works. I'm going to work the list tomorrow and thank you for the input.
 

Robert F Jarvis

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2017
Location
Sebring, FL, USA
I reply in embarrassment: They are inexpensive "Ridgeyard 36 x 0w MH" - Actually they are amazing for what they do. And we have used them very effectively in 3 shows now. Volunteer theater existing on donors so 20 x Martin MAC Vipers are not on our horizon!
 

Amiers

Renting to Corporate One Fixture at a Time.
Joined
May 28, 2009
Location
Phoenix, Az
Yeah being that these are amazon fixtures and DJ fixtures to boot. You might be screwed. You should look at the DMX chart that comes with the fixtures and make your own profile on your EOS. If that isn’t something you have done there are YouTube’s you can watch to walk you through it.

The best test you can do is set your DMX addresses that relate to the channels as a desk/dimmer channel and run each channel individually to see what each one does in case the manual sent is wrong or not there.

After that if they still pan/tilt together that might just be your life. Sadly it’s a get what you buy situation. Which will make your auto spot situation even more fun to block. Gods speed and don’t go under 55.
 
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Robert F Jarvis

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2017
Location
Sebring, FL, USA
Yep. I test all my Stuff 1st at home running them on a 1 to 1 patch basis from a simple QLCplus, USB/ENTEC setup. Hence firing into each fixtures channels directly to check against the manufactures DMX chart. These guys went up and down and around OK. It is something to do with the Tilt axis not starting off parallel to the edge of the stage. So, somehow I have to get them squared head on and then use this as a offset for all other movements. So say I have to apply a 10 deg left pan to bring them into alignment with the stage - how do I let the console know this is really 0 deg?
 

ScottT

Lighting Programmer
Joined
Jul 30, 2008
Location
New York City
So say I have to apply a 10 deg left pan to bring them into alignment with the stage - how do I let the console know this is really 0 deg?
You have two options, both based off of different things:
  1. If your fixture is not hung perfectly perpendicular to the plaster line you will need to adjust the fixture's rotation info in Patch.
  2. If your fixture has a non-symmetrical pan range you will need to edit the fixture profile (example fixture being ETC's Revolution)

Potentially, it could be a combination of both these items. I would start with #1, and then if that doesn't fix it try #2.
 

Amiers

Renting to Corporate One Fixture at a Time.
Joined
May 28, 2009
Location
Phoenix, Az
Yep. I test all my Stuff 1st at home running them on a 1 to 1 patch basis from a simple QLCplus, USB/ENTEC setup. Hence firing into each fixtures channels directly to check against the manufactures DMX chart. These guys went up and down and around OK. It is something to do with the Tilt axis not starting off parallel to the edge of the stage. So, somehow I have to get them squared head on and then use this as a offset for all other movements. So say I have to apply a 10 deg left pan to bring them into alignment with the stage - how do I let the console know this is really 0 deg?
If all 5 are doing the same thing you have something in your profile that is grabbing pan and tilt. You need to check your fixture profile.

I would say that maybe the pan offset on the fixtures is set at a certain number other than 0. It could do that but you are making it sound all 5 are doing the same thing so I think your issue is in the console.

Run a 1 to 1 with them up in the air. That will troubleshoot the hang before you pull them down to possible rehang.
 
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Robert F Jarvis

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2017
Location
Sebring, FL, USA
I ran one at home sitting up on its base and 1 and 1'd it form QLCplus and a ENTEC/usb DMX dongle. Everything, in every channel worked as it should so its going on to sit center stage tomorrow as my 'base' fixture. When I hang (invert) a mover should I have the panel with the power and DMX pointing up stage or down. At the moment I have the menus pointing upstage and the DMX/Power pointing down. And this mover seems to have a bit more of a pan than the usual 0-540 I hear about. These guys go 1 3/4 I.E. 630 degs which I may have to make changes for.
 

Amiers

Renting to Corporate One Fixture at a Time.
Joined
May 28, 2009
Location
Phoenix, Az
Direction doesn’t matter so much as you hang them all the same way. Because you can invert in the menu for the fixture to do whatever you want it to do as far as motion.
 
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Robert F Jarvis

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2017
Location
Sebring, FL, USA
I think it is very hard for me to put my problem in words. With the fixture sitting on a table, with a 1 to 1 patch from QLCPlus and a Entec/usb dongle I've mapped the fixture's pan features. With a DMX value of 0 the head is pointing upstage. As I increase the value the head rotates around to the left and keeps going a full 1 3/4 turns. I.E. 630 degs. So to point in a direction that would allow the beam to sweep both left and right as far as possible (to avoid having to go back 360 deg) I should start at 315 deg. Make sense? Or, in a EOS profile range min -315 Home 0 and max 350. But that means my home is really off the the upstage angle by 45 deg! I'm asking over at ETC for some help with respect to this whole business of correctly pointing a ML. Are there any texts on such I wonder?
 

Robert F Jarvis

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2017
Location
Sebring, FL, USA
OK, right and understood. I noticed the problem when I started to use Augment3d and the beam was on the "virtual" floor but the real beam was in the rafters. Thinking about from day 1 of these MLs arriving we have all just pulled the XY around or use my Lighhack P&T to move the actual beam to a place and then record it. It was always very erratic, hit and miss and just pull P&T all over the place until we hit the spot! But in looking closely it is obvious the Left, Right (not so much Up, Down) are way off - forget Augment3d. So I am starting at ground zero and trying to get better control over these things first and then will move back to 3D. Sorry for the confusion. I don't know who is confused more, me or the movers!