I am going to be a HS Senior this year and so I am trying to get the final list together of where I am going to apply. I am trying to decide between going just the basic technical theatre route with a possible concentration in lighting, for which my list of schools is SOU, DePaul, and UNCSA or combining theatre and engineering with something like Purdue's interdisciplinary degree or UNLV's EED program. So, my question is if having some engineering would help me in my career or not. Finally, for my career I see myself working as a roadie or on a cruise ship for a while possibly and eventually working for Disney or Cirque or somewhere like that. Thanks in advance!
College Deciding on engineering or just technical theatre for college
- Thread starteraschamp14
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BillConnerFASTC
Well-Known Member
Well, engineering courses will teach you things that are hard to learn on the job and add to your value as an employee. What you learn in theatre in an undergraduate program will probably be somewhat "over written" by on the job training. If you have aspiration of doing planning and design of systems and equipment, you should get the engineering training. Wish I had. Some of the best people I know in this business had engineering training as an undergraduate with extra curricular theatre or maybe a minor, and learned to apply that in grad school or on the job.
alyx92
Active Member
If you're looking for connections to Disney and Cirque, I'd take look at UCF (Orlando). I currently go there and love the DT BFA program. Many 3rd/4th year students do their internships with Disney Parks and Cirque, and I know a few alumni who still work for both companies. If you have any question feel free to PM me!
Les
Well-Known Member
Honestly if you have the smarts, go for engineering. Everything else you can take classes and/or learn on the job. On down the road you may decide that you want to make better money in which case the engineering degree could come in handy. Tech Theatre with a concentration in Lighting -- not so much.
Imagine having the opportunity to be designing equipment at a theatrically-oriented company like ETC or J.R. Clancy, that's something that's going to take the engineering degree.
I'm off to the University of Washington in a month and on the pre-engineering route. Would love to design the next Source Four or automated rigging, besides having to move away from the great Pacific Northwest with the #1 summer in the country in Seattle and Portland at #2.
I'm off to the University of Washington in a month and on the pre-engineering route. Would love to design the next Source Four or automated rigging, besides having to move away from the great Pacific Northwest with the #1 summer in the country in Seattle and Portland at #2.
Being a graduate of one of Purdue's Interdiscplinary Engineering programs that included some theater tech I have to question the relevance of such a program for the path you say you plan to follow. If you wanted to go into product or system design, consulting, education and so on then there might be significant value in the Engineering background but for the path you identify that may not matter as much as direct experience. If you wanted to work for Disney or Cirque designing systems and venues then an Engineering background may be invaluable, but if the goal is to be an operator, hands on tech, etc. then while it certainly would not hurt, it may have a much more limited value.
Also understand that there can be a difference between traditional engineering programs with an area of emphasis and many specialized engineering programs. I bring that up as though a specialized program can be a tremendous advantage for directly related roles or work, in terms of looking at other engineering roles as a backup you may be at a disadvantage compared to those coming from more traditional degree programs. If an Electrical Engineering firm is looking for someone specifically to design lighting systems someone with a degree in "Lighting Engineering" might be at the top of the list but if they're looking for someone to design power distribution instead of or in addition to lighting then that "Lighting Engineering" degree may not have as much value as a traditional EE degree.
Also understand that there can be a difference between traditional engineering programs with an area of emphasis and many specialized engineering programs. I bring that up as though a specialized program can be a tremendous advantage for directly related roles or work, in terms of looking at other engineering roles as a backup you may be at a disadvantage compared to those coming from more traditional degree programs. If an Electrical Engineering firm is looking for someone specifically to design lighting systems someone with a degree in "Lighting Engineering" might be at the top of the list but if they're looking for someone to design power distribution instead of or in addition to lighting then that "Lighting Engineering" degree may not have as much value as a traditional EE degree.
My take is that an engineering degree won't keep you from getting a job in the area you are interested in, but a theatre only degree might limit you in the jobs you can get. Also consider that the first few jobs you get are learning experiences to expand your skill set. Read some of the other threads here and don't get an education you can't afford. Being a roadie isn't a great way to pay back student loans.
First off have you read Getting a Job in the Industry? Read it a couple of times. There is gold in that thread which you may not quite see at your age so give it to someone with at least 1 grey hair whom you trust for advice. Have that person read it and tell you what they think. There is a great line in there that says something like, if there is anything else you think you might want to do instead of theater, go do it. A life in theater is hard and you will be poor a long time, perhaps always. If you are trying to decide between theater and engineering go with engineering. You will have a job, you will have benefits, and you will be able to retire some day. Many theater technicians will never have those options.
Second point, which I bring up over and over. Get as much education as you can afford. Having extra education in theater never hurts but having extra student loans will destroy you in theater. I've said it many times here, I know a great technician who went off and got a fancy theater degree he couldn't afford and he has never been able to pursue his dream of working in theater because he couldn't afford it due to his debt. Instead he got stuck in a boring office job he hates, but it has a reliable pay so he can pay off his student loans.
Second point, which I bring up over and over. Get as much education as you can afford. Having extra education in theater never hurts but having extra student loans will destroy you in theater. I've said it many times here, I know a great technician who went off and got a fancy theater degree he couldn't afford and he has never been able to pursue his dream of working in theater because he couldn't afford it due to his debt. Instead he got stuck in a boring office job he hates, but it has a reliable pay so he can pay off his student loans.
Brandofhawk
Active Member
If you want to be a roadie or on the tech crew, don't go to college. Find a conservatory program or something cheaper. You can do these things without a college degree, you just have to start working and taking all gigs / jobs you can find. College will teach you a lot but may not teach you things you want to or need to know and will learn and/or re-learn on the job anyways.
Our industry now covers so much more than schooling can ever teach us - Theater, Concerts, Corporate, Television, Film, Ride/Attractions, Event, Theme Parks... the list goes on. And then what field, lighting, sound, media, costuming, rigging, management, producing, direction, etc.
Figure out what it is that you want to really start going into, this might be hard until you have really experienced each. The professional world in entertainment is different than high school as well. It's not always the same people, and a lot of people are really rough and gruff around the edges - it's a hard lifestyle.
You did mention working on a cruise ship, make sure you read up on the experience other members on this board have had. Also there are a couple good book written about the general work experience by other crew members, I can't think of the names right now sorry.
One nice thought is trying to get a job on a ship right out of hs, save up money, use that money to pay for college, avoid student debts (the nice thing about cruise ships if you have no one to support at home, no bills to pay etc. is that all the money you make goes directly into your bank account and stays there or you can invest it / have someone at home invest it).
I'm not saying don't go to college. Please do! You will help yourself in the long run. College is where I learned how to be a functioning, well thought, adult. I had experiences there that I will never forget and I have made friends who will last me a lifetime. If you are going to college and have a passion for anything else, do that. Take engineering major, when you are done with college, you can always get work as a techie and work your way up.
Our industry now covers so much more than schooling can ever teach us - Theater, Concerts, Corporate, Television, Film, Ride/Attractions, Event, Theme Parks... the list goes on. And then what field, lighting, sound, media, costuming, rigging, management, producing, direction, etc.
Figure out what it is that you want to really start going into, this might be hard until you have really experienced each. The professional world in entertainment is different than high school as well. It's not always the same people, and a lot of people are really rough and gruff around the edges - it's a hard lifestyle.
You did mention working on a cruise ship, make sure you read up on the experience other members on this board have had. Also there are a couple good book written about the general work experience by other crew members, I can't think of the names right now sorry.
One nice thought is trying to get a job on a ship right out of hs, save up money, use that money to pay for college, avoid student debts (the nice thing about cruise ships if you have no one to support at home, no bills to pay etc. is that all the money you make goes directly into your bank account and stays there or you can invest it / have someone at home invest it).
I'm not saying don't go to college. Please do! You will help yourself in the long run. College is where I learned how to be a functioning, well thought, adult. I had experiences there that I will never forget and I have made friends who will last me a lifetime. If you are going to college and have a passion for anything else, do that. Take engineering major, when you are done with college, you can always get work as a techie and work your way up.
That statement right there pretty much throws a wrench in the whole thing (as others have said). No college teaches what you need to know to run a day in the concert world. No college teaches what you need to know to work for Cirque. Some colleges teach what you need to know to run a stage on a cruise ship.
If you want to go into the concert "roadie" world, forget school... go hang out outside of PRG's shop in vegas, Upstaging in Chicago, Bandit in Nashvegas, Christie, Creative Stage Lighting, the list goes on. If you want to design gear for any of those companies, then you need to have the years on the road first. An engineering (or theatre degree) will not help you in your day to day life of putting up and taking down shows. If colleges did a better job of teaching towards this end of the industry it would be a different story.
If you really want to go somewhere to really learn the engineering and nuts and bolts side of the industry that will turn you into a killer technician, take a look at City Tech. New York City College of Technology - Entertainment Technology - Home. It is the program that if I were to do it all over again it would be my #1 choice.
Don't we know someone on Faculty there?
JohnHuntington
Well-Known Member
Thanks as always, Derek, for keeping me on my toes!
I watch the new CB posts on the RSS feed but don't get to visit as much as I'd like, especially since we're in the process of starting school (and the Gravesend Inn) right now.Anyway, yes I teach at City Tech and of course I'm biased but I think we are a great choice for those interested in the broad range of careers in entertainment technology.
I have an article (wow, I just realized I wrote this 10 years ago!) about our approach here. You're welcome to stop by any time; the best time to really see the whole thing in action is during the Gravesend Inn.
Thanks!
John
hobbsies
Active Member
agreed. I wish I was getting an engi degree. Too late to switch now. Most schools will let you work in the theatre without being a major, which is all you really need college for: for the basics and to make mistakes. The rest you get on the job. You will get better jobs and better pay in the theatrical field if you have an engineering degree.
You might want to keep in mind that for many engineering roles a degree is just the first step and that some career paths as well as options such as practicing on your own may entail professional licensing, which in turn relates to exams, relevant work experience, continuing education and so on. If you get an Engineering degree and then choose to not go directly into a related role that can limit that degree's value and your options later on.
Rental houses, rep theatres, road houses, and the like won't really care what your degree is. I don't pay my employees with MFA's any more then I pay my employees who just got out of prison. Just because you have an engineering degree will not mean you get paid more. If you go work in a scene/automation type house where your engineering skills will get used more then yes you could make more money. Of course if you want to go do R&D for one of the many manufactures out there you might make good money, but those jobs are pretty far removed from the production world. If you talk to anyone who has worked for Tait, they will tell you they their ideal employee is a mechanical engineer who has spent years on the road putting together stages. Unfortunately, you don't get paid as an engineer when you are swinging a sledge hammer building a stage everyday.
And if I had a dollar for every person I know who is going to college to become an engineer so they can go work for ETC one day I would probably have a new car in my driveway...
Talk to the guys at ETC and ask how they got there. Most will tell you they came up through the ranks and worked at many different companies through the years that were all in some way on the cutting edge of something. The knowledge you need to go far in this industry is not taught in schools. It is learned on the job. Any electrical engineer can make a lighting console. Any software engineer can design software for said console. It takes a person who knows the trade top to bottom and forwards and backwards to design something that can hold up to the abusive nature of this business AND can work with the people that are destined to operate the gear.
I don't know the perfect path for these type of jobs... and I don't think there really is one. I do know though that I would never want to hire a theater consultant or system designer of any type under the age of 40. Same thing goes for sales guys. You rarely see a sales guy in the business under the age of 40.
http://www.etcconnect.com/jobs.aspx
llburg
Member
So, lets see if I have a solid plan here. Go to college for engineering, then start at the bottom and work up actually doing live production work (theatre), then if I get tired of the lifestyle I have the potential option to move into an engineering job, with the bonus of useful experience should it be at an entertainment company like ETC or Philips-Varilite. Has anybody here done something similar? Or is this just wishful thinking..
Most would tell you go get that engineering degree, work for 30 years in a real job, retire at 55 with a nice house and a real retirement while laughing at all the people in the production world who work till they are 70.
There are no real plans in this world. You can try, but 90% of this world is who you know and right place right time. If you want it hard enough, you might be able to do it.
I have also always wondered why people want to go "work for ETC" (nothing against those of you who are members here who do that exact thing, I'm glad your out there!). If you want to go create some awesome hardware, there are much cooler and faster paced markets out there. If you want to create awesome software the same thing applies. Lighting companies tend to be on the back end of the cutting edge. They tend to wait for technologies to solidify before making a move. They have to do this because we as an industry demand products that work 100% of the time. If you want to work on the cutting edge of R&D, aim for JPL, Nasa, anything in silicon valley, or the defense industry.
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