Did I get a good deal?

What you not happy to get a bit of sun? Smile.... you on camera, look happy in your career as opposed to serving bergers, the cash regester or the priest hood. At very lest false motivation not just inspires you but your crew in getting it... thru the day. Smile and look happy for the camera, or at least look interested and look happy. Terrable photo in a "what's wrong with what we are walking towards or getting into type of way.
Look at the other guys, at least they are there out of purpose - flying to the moon some day but being happy with that or solving the problem in yep we are here, here we are to solve it and it being what we do mam, stand back.
As a addition to the above thoughts, it costs like $12.50 for a new lamp socket retail average price (Osram #F511914 or in general Sylvania #PAR 1) sockets being the king of all on the market and worth that price and more given its metal frame. For a common all the same for the most part lamp socket, Altman using a decent one but not outstanding one it is ok.

Still one should do a contingingant upon inspection of the lamp base/socket condition of the gear serviceability thing with the buy. A good lamp socket when tested should be not only able to retain the lamp when that alone lifts the lamp but with a gentle bounce, still retain it without the lamp falling. On used gear, one would tend to want a good socket to the lamp and short of that it is an added cost on your part to replace or one that will cost you in the long run once worse and costing you in lamps.

Assuming you can bounce test the lamp retention of the socket it should be like $12.50 in the balance for worth of the fixture also negotiable. This given I in pricing it out would not sell bad gear and would only sell gear that is fully functional but given I don’t normally have direct impute on gear sold. In my opinion a bad socket is like a missing gel frame as something needed to be replaced and necessary over that of a plug or lamp for the sale. This otherwise for what you buy the price had at best reflect the overall value or what you will need to pay in making it work properly. Also assuming the microphone bases don’t come with the sale in which case at least for the good fixture - with all its parts and without snapped welds, would be worth in my opinion replacing a lamp socket. Perhaps even adding $5.00 to the cost given lamp provided in being a wash. The other fixture, still at best in the $35.00 at best range if not $25.00 further for that value if it also needs a replaced socket.

This measurement of a PAR lamp socket I would assume the standard for the industry in having the proper and sufficient tension on the lamp base prongs.

This all assuming my standards are more like a mechanic that is inspecting a used car in noting what normally is wrong with it before even getting into strain relief and cord whip type things, amongst loose ground etc type stuff. If coming with the weighted michrophone base, sure as a wash for both, could be worth it overall in what you get this assuming the weighted bases are worth it for you or you resell them for like $25.00 each I would think. Otherwise fair assessment of the value or what to negotiate in value if helpful. Overall, the one with bad frame holder and considering both as per one also requiring you to buy a gel frame and service the gear, it at best at $35.00. If requiring lamp socket in either case, $12.50 at least yet in cost for the lower priced socket at leat given used gear and above that figure costs. Lamp coming with at best like $5.00 for price, and plug say for what is listed like $7.50 averaged out between the inspection and possible re-doing and in good shape with the can itself alone worth say $25.00 minimum.

Hope it helps.
 
Last edited:
Got the fixtures yesterday, I went over them thoroughly and checked everything.
-
I seem to remember a retaining ring of sorts that you have to pinch together to release the lamp.
-
If anyone knows what I am talking about, could you please direct me to a place where I could find them?
 
Get the retaining ring from any number of suppliers from American DJ, to Kupo to Altman to .... One size should fit all no matter the brand. Don't care what is required, it's normal and a good thing.
 
How about this for a "good deal": 2 Altman 75Q's, w/lamps, original paint, and NO dings for $35.00 each!
I got them in our local "US gov't / military surplus" store. (Those of you in the Orlando area may know of that wonderful building at the corner of Fairbanks & I-4, with the "flying saucer" on the roof....)
 
How about this for a "good deal": 2 Altman 75Q's, w/lamps, original paint, and NO dings for $35.00 each!
I got them in our local "US gov't / military surplus" store. (Those of you in the Orlando area may know of that wonderful building at the corner of Fairbanks & I-4, with the "flying saucer" on the roof....)

Haha you got that from Skycraft!?! :p I never saw any real lighting gear in there before....you might find all the parts you need to build one scatterd throughout the store though...that place has some awesome finds from time to time! Great job with that purchase!
 
I just bought 3 1950's Strand "S" Battens in almost perfect condition. Unscratched paintwork, the reflectors are very good, they even still seem to have some of the original lamps and the one with colour in has Cinemoid from the feel of it. No numbers but dark blue, pink and amber(straw). They even still have the unique original Strand bar clamps fitted. I am a bit short of colour frames though. One batten came with none and when I asked the guy seemed confused.
The only issue with them is that some idiot has tried to rewire them to two way from the three way standard wiring, got confused and gave up halfway through the job. Not a problem. I will be able to fix that. I may rewire them as 4 way like my 1930's SEECOL battens. An acceptable alternative.
Total Price: $140.00 AUD
 
If you want to talk good deals...I don't know if this is really "good", but I like it: I got 4 Kliegl 1355 (two 18 degree, two 27 degree), several spare parts for them, and two Kliegl Olivettes (no stands though, still haven't worked that one out) for free. Theatre didn't ever use them, just told me to take them. I don't have a lot of use for them, but I just think it's cool to have them anyway.

Oh, they gave me a couple free sheets of diffusion too...:)

-Dan
 
I was always in the right place at the right time through my school career to take home freebies during spring cleaning. This was especially true when we moved out of the old middle school that was going to be demolished. I took home a bunch of Altman fixtures (asbestos wiring of course), some RCF speakers, a great QSC amp that I use to this day, even a spare AT wireless mic. When my former director was cleaning out the building they moved in to, I could have taken home a Strong Trouper carbon-arc spotlight, but lacked the vehicle to move it and the space to store it until I move into a future loft or converted warehouse where I could have proudly displayed it. Thankfully it didn't hit the heap, it's still in the back of the house where it has been for the last 40 years, but the director who offered it to me retired so I may not get another chance...
 
Alright, I finally got around to fixing things up.
I used pop rivets on the frames and high temp paint on the fixtures and brackets.(making sure to mask the labels of course;))
-
I accidentally cracked one of the lampholders(?) and neither of them are particularly tight.
-
So I want to replace them, but the replacements have short tails on them.
Common sense and electrical knowledge tell me that LX tape/wire nuts will melt and cause trouble.
-
I have two thoughts at this point:
1. Inline insulated butt splice somewhere toward the fixture end of the whip
2. a heat resistant splice block of some type like this:
Ceramic Block - BulbAmerica.com

Which is the better option?
 
Try new sockets with 36 inch leads from ReplacementLightBulbs.com.
This will solve your cracked ceramic block problem, as well as the short tail issue.

Drat. Just reread your post. You already have new sockets. Sorry.

Those look nice! Just ordered some.
The company of which I spoke earlier doesn't attach the ceramic terminal block to anything--it just flops around in the fixture. This may be the reason I had to repair two (out of 18*2*6) on a show a couple of weeks ago.

They do have a little screw hole in the center, or at least the ones I have seen do. The thing that bugs me is that our friends in China have not figured out that you should not tin the wires before you use them! Just went through 16 such fixtures and every one was loose.
 
Wire nuts are bad not just from heat (and there are high temp. wire nuts out there - even some from Ideal with a set screw that you would want to use a ferrule with) but that they - all of them other than the Ideal version tend to fall off even if properly installed. Never tape a wire nut on - makes the end users suspicious of what is under it, instead 1" from any wire nut tape the cables together to strain relief them.

Only options are full length whips, (return what you just got) the Osram PAR1 ##F511919 or #F511914 are tops in having an aluminum frame about the porcelain that helps keep it together and protect against damage. Good sockets, still after a time wear out but last a lot longer overall. Such a socket should be available from any lamp supplier or theater supplier. 36" to 48" whips of SF-2 heat wire at 200c.

Check the grounding wire connection also - could be loose and or also need replacement.

Many times you will see nylon cap splices in use inside a PAR can otherwise if using 6" whips linked to a cord. I dislike such a method because often it's a splice to at best a 90c if not 75c cord spliced to and that ain't a good thing overall because the wire is going to melt or dry rot.

Otherwise a porcelain high temperature terminal block that’s mounted to the cap is indeed frequently used. I’m not a fan of either solution of normal wire nut or cap splice or even nylon butt splices or quick disconnects in none being really rated for the heat or end result use - this also including the terminal block. Belive Nylon while it doesn't melt - just becomes brittle and vinyl insulation which melts all have the same 175 degree temperature rating - all of which a PAR can can easily be more than.

I normally if using a short whip use a high temperature 600C butt splice and at least three layers of 1/2" Scotch #23 fiberglass electrical tape over it with 3/4" overlap onto the conductor.

Main problems with splicing blocks is first you have a set screw clamping down directly onto the conductors and if you are not using a ferrule that has to be bent and folded in order to fit in the block you are forcing a screw to turn/cut into the strands of wire plus have strands with expansion/contraction that will settle and cause a loose terminal.

Clamping a set screw directly down onto individual strands of wire also tends to cut them and heat wire especially has problems with set screws short of ferrules in use due to screws cutting into them. Very common your terminal block will have broken strands and arching with use. Also very common the block itself and or the set screws will become loose. Currently going thru an upgrade program on like +60x 2Kw studio Fresnels that were using the porcelain terminal blocks but now will be using the above high temp butt splice and a cable strap on the frame instead.

On the lamp sockets, any socket that can’t lift a lamp and survive it bouncing while suspending the lamp is insufficient in tension and should be replaced. This in addition to inspection of them for arching and or cracked bases. Can with older style sockets that have screw tension take them apart and swap out terminals between say cracked ones but ones with proper tension and those that are not so good but it’s more of a pain in the rear than its worth. My advice is the Osram lamp socket and either SF-2 wire or 150c FEP wire for the ground in a #0 fiberglass sleeve.

For the ground I normally do a real 10-32x1/2" grounding screw - it's green, with a stainless steel external tooth lock washer and stainless steel top lock nut - nylock nuts - see above above about nylon, much less they don't hold as well. Normal temperature #10 stud ring terminals sized for the wire are fine for the ground.

Word of caution about crimping splices and or the ring terminal for the ground. First you need a proper Stakon type tool such as a Klien #1005 with a tooth. Second, seam in the saddle meaning the seam of the crimp goes into the U-cut section of the crimper because sending the jaw of the crimper into the seam don't do a proper crimp. Third, tug hard on the crimp because even harder than a normal crimp terminal, these steel crimp terminals are hard to crimp to the proper tension. Leko Manager is currently pissed with "her boys" working in her department. Lilly wristed kids, between crimping onto the seam or wires that pull out, there is going to be Heck to pay in them not doing as instructed and her having to re-do the crimps on all the above Fresnels they were working on. At some point I bought for that department a ratcheting crimp tool for such a purpose, don't like the tooth to it in that it more crushes than displaces material within the crimp - why I don't allow the use of insulated crimp tool jaws, but perhaps she should have had them use it so as to ensure the proper tension at least should be there.

Otherwise there is always the training technique I learned by with Union connectors. Crimp your flag terminals and center ground as normal to a three conductor 12 ga. wire but instead of installing them on the plug, drywall screw them to a piece of plywood. This given the sheer strength of a individual drywall screw is 40# should be taken into account if using a #6 drywall screw instead of a #8 one for more heavy people. Hang that piece of plywood and have them climb it if not bounce from it. Best be able to climb it without the wire pulling loose. After such a training technique, one tends to learn something of interst that stays with them.
 
Last edited:
High temp butt splice it is.
-
I'm liking the look of the new Osram alumPar lamps.
So I think i'll got with Osram PAR-1 base and the 56004 lamp.
 

Attachments

  • FO208.pdf
    94.2 KB · Views: 358
I play tested some of the PAR 56 and the new PAR 64 versions of these at one point. Most likely will never buy into them given literally hundreds of the normal bulbs in stock from the old school days and lots of S-4 fixtures beyond that limiting the need for this lamp upgrade other than for resale. This to the disappointment of the Osram reps. in their visits or asking about what wattages to make them. In the future there might be more wattage ranges for them.

Main problem for me even in a recent resale on that size lamp is the PAR 56 version don't have a 500w version yet and while bright, it's only 300w. While color temperature is much and amazingly better, luminous output might not be enough however by way of like 20,000 CP difference between the AluPar and halogen 500w version for a MFL lamp.
 
Butt splice to what on the whip? Not a fan of even 90c normal grades of extension cord wiring within a light fixture - even if only a PAR 56. Better would be butt splice to SF-2 in fiberglass sleeve, at least FEP in the same or a 200c high temp heat wire cable such as Lex offers - though it in being silicone/euro don't stand up well to DF-50 fluid in the atmosphere. Not many heat wires left of value these days other than TNC K-Fiber which is 200c with fiberglass insulated FEP. Problem with it is that it's not very flexible in only being seven strand conductors and very hard to work with overall. Since Rockbestos as a type of heat wire got discontinued, there is not much out there that's bullet proof yet user friendly. Possibly best off with the SF-2 cord whip inside a fiberglass sleeve if of use.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back