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Conventional Fixtures Diffusion or Color Media--Which goes first?

Discussion in 'Lighting and Electrics' started by propmonkey, Nov 15, 2005.

?

In which order should plastic color media and diffusion be ideally placed?

  1. Source -> Diffusion -> Color

    49.4%
  2. Source -> Color -> Diffusion

    27.2%
  3. It doesn't matter.

    18.5%
  4. I've never done both at the same time.

    4.9%
  1. propmonkey

    propmonkey Well-Known Member

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    this crossed my mind when i woke up today. when putting a gel and a frost in a fixture what goes towards the lense first?

    is it gel/frost/lense or forst/gel/lense

    or does this even matter?
     
  2. CHScrew

    CHScrew Active Member

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    I've always done it gel/frost/lense.
     
  3. RiffRaff54

    RiffRaff54 Member

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    i dont think it matters. if you have written on either cut with a china marker, make sure the mark isn't touching the other cut, i've noticed that then tend to melt togeather.
     
  4. moojoe

    moojoe Active Member

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    i dont think it matters much, but i do it "lense, frost, gel" because i rather the frost melt before the gel if either of them are going to. and while the frost is important, i dont want a large white spot in the middle of say a blue.
     
  5. SketchyCroftPpl

    SketchyCroftPpl Active Member

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    I think moojoe makes a good point that its better to have slightly unfrosted blue light than frosted white light in the middle of blue. WHen you think about it for the order however. In one your making light blue and then frosted only that wavelength or your frosting everything and then only allowing the blue to pass through. It may not be noticable to the eye and therefor not matter, but would the blue on the outside of the front have a stronger color because the frost isn't taking anything away from the desired wavelength?

    ~Nick
     
  6. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    That's a interesting theory and about the best excuse in additon to labeling in seeing what color it is as opposed to what frost it is I have ever heard.

    IN the past I have always done frost away from the lens. I might think of switching now.
     
  7. SketchyCroftPpl

    SketchyCroftPpl Active Member

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    Ha ha thank you ... I hope you were talking about my comment or I'll feel very stupid right now. Lol.

    ~Nick
     
  8. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    egg on you to some extent. I was writing about the theory in general of melting gels and which melts first. Given a 1/4" space between gels this concept might work.
    If of help, your point is as confused as probably moot as would be which gel melts first if right next to each other.

    On the other hand peraps not. Never noted grease pencil writings sticking together, much less by all concepts, whic side do you place outboard - the reflective or frosted side of the gel given it now matters?

    In the past I have always been instructed gel first than frost. This more so one can focus the light than while cleaning up it's beam add frost. Otherwise in general, the frost second and when possible in a seperate frame. Never given a reason for this policy however and it might have a rational behind it.

    I kind of like the concept of seeing the color even what color it is in blue over that of seeing all the lights above some coloring of white frost. This I think is the best idea.

    Perhaps someone should E-Mail Rosco/Lee/Gam with this question.
     
  9. SketchyCroftPpl

    SketchyCroftPpl Active Member

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    Ha Ha Whoops :-X Oh well I like eggs.

    ~Nick
     
  10. jfbach

    jfbach Member

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    This may sound dumb... But i would put the frost first so that the gel is away from the lense, so that I could see which gel I had in which light.
     
  11. moojoe

    moojoe Active Member

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    while a designer should have an idea of what unit is what colour, i know in reality its impossible for us to memorize it, so that is a completely valid point, i like being able to see "oh, thats the cools" and whatnot.
     
  12. gafftapegreenia

    gafftapegreenia CBMod CB Mods

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    Diffusion and Color Media

    Which would you consider the IDEAL order for placing plastic color media and diffusion in a lighting instrument.

    {Edit by DL: This and subsequent posts merged into this thread from another.}
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 9, 2009
  13. propmonkey

    propmonkey Well-Known Member

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    i had the question a year ago. i searched on here, look in a few books, found a good thread on thelightnetwork, and asking some designers. what they all said is that they do source > diffusion > color so you can see the color without having the instrument on.
     
  14. sk8rsdad

    sk8rsdad Well-Known Member Premium Member Fight Leukemia

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    The diffuser may also provide some heat shielding or heat dispersal for the color media yielding some marginal improvement on gel burnout. Does Rosco sell diffusion Heat Shield?
     
  15. bdkdesigns

    bdkdesigns Active Member Fight Leukemia

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    That's the exact same reason why I do the diffusion first. Whenever doubling colors up in the frame (or multiple frames), I always do it in that same order. The more saturated colors end up on the outside furthest from the source.
     
  16. Kelite

    Kelite Apollo Staff Premium Member

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    Yup- my thinking as well. Any bit of extra life afforded to a saturated color is a wise word in my book!
     
  17. Ame

    Ame Member

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    No on the Rosco Diffusion-Heat Shield question, however if you use Super Heat Shield (Rosco product, not generic name), it is reusable with any color and will outlast your gel. So, you can use it on your current production and then change out the gel for your next. SHS is worth the investment if you continually use saturated colors. Keep an airgap between SHS and the color filter so the heat won't transfer.
     
  18. Sean

    Sean Active Member

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    Re: what goes first? gel or frost

    Perhaps some clarification....

    Do we mean in the same frame or not? Not that I think it changes anything (in relation to order) but would in the "sticking together" problem.

    --Sean
     
  19. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

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    Re: what goes first? gel or frost

    For the sake of this argument, let's say in the same frame, and not in one of those newfangled fancy-schmancy fixtures with their double colorframe runners.

    Edit: found the other thread, and it already had a poll attached, so have merged the two. Some will need to re-vote.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2009
  20. TupeloTechie

    TupeloTechie Active Member

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    I may be completely wrong but if the gel and the diffusion are right next to each other wouldn't that both end up melting if 1 was going to melt?

    Ive never really thought about it though, I just put it in whatever way the frame is facing when I pick it up.
     

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