Design Dimmer packs and wiring questions....

[milemarker68]

I think I am looking at something wrong, maybe someone can help for earlier this year I was asked to look into the issues with our lights and have been thrust into some new territory.

First the wiring layout in our church:

Dimmer packs are daisy chained - one controls the stage lights (pars, etc) one controls the house lights (standard building can lights) .
Stage light dimmer pack (NRD-8000) is hard wired into constant power.
House lights dimmer pack (NRD-8000) is hard wired into constant power and into light switch.
On the back of each dimmer pack are electrical plugs receptors.
House lights are divided into sections on the ceiling and wired to come out as an electrical plug to be plugged into the plug receptors - thus can be dimmed when control panel is connected.
Stage lights are mounted on the ceiling. Each light is plugged into its own outlet which ties into a plug that plugs into a plug receptor on the back of the dimmer pack.

I was thinking I needed to switch to DMX in order to use/control LED lights, however (this is where I am stuck) wouldn't I have to run at least one dmx cable to the ceiling outlets (and to any new outlets being installed for back lighting on the stage)?

Question: Wouldn't I need one Dimmer pack to control the house lights that still has the "plug" receptors and a separate dimmer with pack for DMX control?

Question: Do they make a Dimmer pack that runs both? For if some of the stage lights are Plugged and some of the stage lights are LED (DMX controlled) how would that work?

Question: What kind of lighting control panel do I need to handle both "plugged" and DMX dimmers.

Any advice is welcomed.

 

[mstaylor]

There are boards that output both DMX and Microplex it is better to either do one or the other. You will need DMX to control LEDs so the best thing to do is use a converter to change the DMX to microplex for your existing dimmers.

 

[derekleffew]

milemarker68, I'll be making some bold and brash assumptions, so stop me if anything doesn't seem to ring true. I'm adding LEDs to your existing system, not eliminating any lights you currently have. I didn't see that you listed which console you have (but if you're looking to add LED fixtures you're probably also in the market for a new console). Element or ETC SmartFade are common recommendations around here. Buy a console that only outputs DMX512; you're done with Microplex. Many/most NSI dimmers and controllers can be relatively inexpensively upgraded from Microplex to DMX. Contact a Leviton theatrical dealer for more info on that. Upgrade your dimmers; I'm pretty sure NRD 8000 can be upgraded, but if not, we'll add a $300-500 IF-501 to your system. Still likely less expensive than buying brand new dimmers. Unless your existing dimmers are shot, how old are they? We'll also get you a D-Split splitter so you won't have to daisy-chain DMX thru every device in the room. You probably have an XLR3 microphone cable running from the console in the booth to the dimmers backstage. This will need to be replaced with DMX-acceptable cable. Probably not a big deal. The splitter will live backstage just before the dimmers. Input from the console, Out#1 to the dimmers, Out#2 to LEDs FOH, Out#3 to LEDs over stage, Out#4 to LEDs on the deck. Don't let the running of a few control cables get you down, there's always a way. Wiring line voltage though, requires a licensed electrician and probably a permit.

As you've discovered LEDs and moving lights need data (DMX) and power (regular, outlet, never run thru a dimmer, wall power). Only conventionals, leko, fresnel, PAR plug into "the 'plug' receptors" (the proper term is receptacle) on the back of the dimmer, eventually. The great news is that since LEDs draw so little power, you can likely easily plug ten or more fixtures into one wall outlet.

If you confirm/acknowledge what I've said I could do a quick schematic drawing that might explain things better. Make friends with some from the Pacific Northwest CB Crew - ControlBooth ; for recommendations on dealers and equipment. In person is always better.

 

[milemarker68]

"...adding LEDs to your existing system, not eliminating any lights you currently have." This is correct, no lights will be eliminated and the structure in which they are set will most likely remain.

"I didn't see that you listed which console you have need to replace"
The NSI 7000 24 channel microplex. "....Element or ETC SmartFade are common recommendations around here" Thanks - will look into!
"...Unless your existing dimmers are shot..." yes one is completely shot! they are 15 yrs old

"...D-Split splitter so you won't have to daisy-chain DMX thru every device in the room... sounds like a plan.

"...You probably have an XLR3 microphone cable running from the console in the booth to the dimmers backstage. This will need to be replaced with DMX-acceptable cable."
Will Do!

Input from the console, Out#1 to the dimmers, Out#2 to LEDs FOH, Out#3 to LEDs over stage, Out#4 to LEDs on the deck. Don't let the running of a few control cables get you down, there's always a way. Wiring line voltage though, requires a licensed electrician and probably a permit.


"...If you confirm/acknowledge what I've said I could do a quick schematic drawing that might explain things better..." That would be much appreciated!

Thanks so much for your time and ideas! It is greatly appreciated.

Ty