dimmer smoked now trips NOT OVER LOADED, can you help me figure out why?

[AliciaD]

Hey everyone,
I'd really appreciate some feedback on my dimmer box.
We have an Elation DP- 640B a 6 circuit 20 amp dimmer.
(note I'm walking into our church lighting so I dont have specs on a lot of equiptment and I wasnt around when everything was wired. I'm experienced in lighting design and rigging but not an electrician so i've never gutted a dimmer box)

A few months ago we had the box start smoking and a full breaker trip.
Since then we've had a series of strange trips. I've done all the math and none of the circuits are over loaded, all are WELL below the 20 Amp 2400W limits at 120V.

Our house lights seem FINE when they're on full power but anything dimmed starts a buzzing which intensifies and eventually trips the breaker (sometimes just that chanel sometimes the entire box)

Our focused instruments are hit or miss, sometimes giving no problems as all, sometimes tripping all or part of the box. Manual reset of breaker switches restors function but sometimes takes two or three presses before it works.

I've checked our settings, everything is on dimmer, everything is running through our DMX just fine, when things work they dim just fine. and nothing has ever thrown the main wall breaker.

I'm at a complete loss other than to just assume that there is a short somewhere in the wiring. however I also havent noticed everhearing the fan run on the dimmer, but since it often trips when it's first turned on i'm not thinking it's an over heating issue.

 

[derekleffew]

... A few months ago we had the box start smoking and a full breaker trip. ...

Immediately remove the dimmer pack from service and send it to Elation, or other qualified service center.

Elation Professional - Professional Lighting Products

 

[lightman02]

Hey everyone,
I'd really appreciate some feedback on my dimmer box.
We have an Elation DP- 640B a 6 circuit 20 amp dimmer.
(note I'm walking into our church lighting so I dont have specs on a lot of equiptment and I wasnt around when everything was wired. I'm experienced in lighting design and rigging but not an electrician so i've never gutted a dimmer box)

A few months ago we had the box start smoking and a full breaker trip.
Since then we've had a series of strange trips. I've done all the math and none of the circuits are over loaded, all are WELL below the 20 Amp 2400W limits at 120V.

Our house lights seem FINE when they're on full power but anything dimmed starts a buzzing which intensifies and eventually trips the breaker (sometimes just that chanel sometimes the entire box)

Our focused instruments are hit or miss, sometimes giving no problems as all, sometimes tripping all or part of the box. Manual reset of breaker switches restors function but sometimes takes two or three presses before it works.

I've checked our settings, everything is on dimmer, everything is running through our DMX just fine, when things work they dim just fine. and nothing has ever thrown the main wall breaker.

I'm at a complete loss other than to just assume that there is a short somewhere in the wiring. however I also havent noticed everhearing the fan run on the dimmer, but since it often trips when it's first turned on i'm not thinking it's an over heating issue.

Dimmers are not supposed to smoke!!! I don't see the reason you are trying to mess with a piece of equipment that has a serious problem and can potentially cause a fire due to an obviously unsafe condition. I agree with derekleffew, get it fixed properly!!!

 

[JD]

The dimmer is rated at 1200 watts per channel, with the additional limitation of 2400 watts at any given time, total for channels 1,2, and 3. Another 2400 watts limit for the total of 4,5, and 6.

Despite some bad info on the net, none of the channels are 2400 watts.

Manual - http://www.bulbamerica.com/downloads/dl/file/id/103/dp_640_manual.pdf

In practice, channels probably should be capped at 750 watts.

Even within these ratings, you may have a solder joint that went thermal. If it smoked, don't use it until it has been serviced.

 

[TimMiller]

The smoke is what make it work it's actually called magic dust. You have to get a qualified tech to put new magic dust back in. If you do not then mr catastrophic failure will set in and take everything out. I'm sure there is a local shop you can send it off to or contact elation for support. I have a feeling a solder trace and possibly some scr's

 

[AliciaD]

thanks for the info. (not so much for the sarcasm)
Pretty much what I thought.
I walked into a bit of a... umm... over stretched and under researched system trying to put all the pieces together.
We havent done replacements right off because being a church kind of comes with the implied lack of funds.

thanks again all. off I go to let our financial board know we need more money than we've got good thing we all believe in miracles

 

[GageStryker]

I do church work, too. And there's the miracle of "no, it doesn't work, and I'm sending if off to get fixed." And if there's no money, there's the miracle of "I've just disconnected this and removed it from service, and lo and behold, the bush (and the rest of the church building) DIDN'T catch on fire!"

If there's no money to service a dimmer pack, then there's obviously no real need to HAVE a dimmer pack.

And it's not just churches. So many places fight tooth and nail for capital to buy shiny new toys and don't budget for maintenance that will make then stay that way.

 

[church]

smoke from a unit needs to be investigated by someone who knows what they are doing. The first question you have to answer when investigating any fault is what is damaged/destroyed? second what could have caused the failure or damage? and third what else needs to be adjusted/replaced to prevent a repeat failure?

Smoke means something was overstressed - this could be anything from a simple resistor to a filtering choke - your biggest cost in the repair may be the time someone spends on it.

Unfortunately the shipping to send it to me is prohibitive.

Good luck.

 

[JD]

You are far more likely to have a smoke-out with a shoebox (or extended shoebox in this case) dimmer that with a real modular professional system. The primary reason for this is that on better dimmers the power wires or choke leads are attached directly to the SSR. In shoebox dimmers, a triac is used instead of an SSR. The device itself is not the cause for the problem, but triacs are often soldered directly to a printed circuit board. At another location on the board, the power and load wires are soldered on.

Printed circuit boards have problems with heavy components, and connections where a lot of current pass through. In both cases, ring cracks can form. Heavy components over time may actually break the connection where the lead is soldered to the trace. High current connections often crack due to the difference in the expansion coefficient of the board, the wire, the trace, and the solder. In both cases the connection may open up, or even arc. If enough heat is generated, the resin in the fiberglass circuit board may burn. This can really cause problems as the burned section of board may contain enough carbon to actually start conducting!

As you can see, what started out as a small ring crack can quickly escalate!

 

[MNicolai]

If you do not intend to have the unit repaired, at least contact Elation and tell them that their unit smoked up on you and that unless they want it you intend to throw it away.

Believe it or not, manufacturers prefer their products don't catch fire or release lots of smoke. Even if your product doesn't qualify for a warranty repair, Elation may be interested in at least looking at it and finding out what exactly went wrong in their product so they can work on fixing their design of that device.

While not very active, we do have at least two Elation reps here at CB, eloader is a director of sales and ELASERV is service manager. Provided they regularly login here, both might be able to comment on this product and what your best next action may be. You can also try eloader at eric (at) elationlighting (dot) com.