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Discoveries in the gel cabinet.

Discussion in 'Lighting and Electrics' started by gafftapegreenia, May 6, 2008.

  1. gafftapegreenia

    gafftapegreenia CBMod CB Mods

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    You never know what goodies one may find digging through the gel cabinet. First, I found a nice selection of Roscolene. Since we really have no use for it, I think I will 'liberate' it from its dusty hold.

    Second, we have several cuts of the Roscolux xxA series of gels. Yet another set I am going to gather samples from for my '"archives".

    Now, here is my favorite part. I came across a rosco gel of R123. That's right, amber diffusion. While Rosco still makes red, green and blue diffusion gels, amber diffusion is long gone from the offerings. Man how I wish it was still made. So often I have wanted the convenience of a combination amber and frost. What a surprise to see it once existed. Amber cyc silk still exists, so why not a frost?

    Kelite, if you're listening, I know a good gel for Apollo to add to their line.
     
  2. Dustincoc

    Dustincoc Active Member

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    I've got a 5gallon pail filled with Roscolene. I stacked it it then rolled it so the bucket is pretty much a solid chunk of roscolene with a 4" hole in the middle.
     
  3. Clifford

    Clifford Active Member

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    We found a mouse and the oldest roll of glowtape any of us had ever seen. As you may imagine, neither were very useful to us.
     
  4. lieperjp

    lieperjp Well-Known Member

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    I found some extremely old (rechargeable?) batteries - not even sure WHAT they are, maybe they're not even batteries. They look like batteries - shiny metal cylinders about 6 in tall and 3 in diameter, weighing probably 20lbs. Also a set of chalk blocks for car tires. What those were doing in there nobody knows.
     
  5. SteveB

    SteveB Well-Known Member

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    [QUOTE=gafftapegreenia;

    Now, here is my favorite part. I came across a rosco gel of R123. That's right, amber diffusion. While Rosco still makes red, green and blue diffusion gels, amber diffusion is long gone from the offerings. Man how I wish it was still made. So often I have wanted the convenience of a combination amber and frost. What a surprise to see it once existed. Amber cyc silk still exists, so why not a frost?

    .[/QUOTE]

    Rosco still makes Amber R127, which is a deeper version of R123 and as it (123) probably only got used on a cyc (typically), with R123 being lighter in saturation then 127, it hardley got used. I use the full R-B-G-A set, R124-127 all the time on my L&E MR16 strips, using R127 when someone simply asks for "Amber".

    If they want something specific, I go with what they spec. and add R104 to the frame.

    R160 is a slightly less dense version of R104, which BTW, is not as dense as it was about 6 years ago. Lee makes L228, a nice dense linear diffusion.

    SB
     
  6. gafftapegreenia

    gafftapegreenia CBMod CB Mods

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    Alls I'm saying is that, with R-G-B-A cyc silks available, it sure would be nice to have R-G-B-A cyc frosts.

    R127 is a silk. R123 was a frost. I do believe that saturation was different, but I'd still like the option.
     
  7. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

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    I've always wanted to do a cyc with RGB on the top and CMY on the bottom, but never have. Has anyone ever additively mixed CMY? What were the results? Something to try the next time I have movers available.

    For a four color cyc system, I've always used Red, Blu, Grn, Lt.Blu. Why do lighting people usually go RBG, while video does RGB?
     
  8. DarSax

    DarSax Active Member

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    When I visited Georgetown's theater a year or so ago, the LD was using a cyc of CMY. When I asked him about it, he said that he wasn't really trying to color mix, but just wanted to play around with a new cyc configuration and he was expecting the results to be weird.
     
  9. icewolf08

    icewolf08 CBMod CB Mods

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    All I have to say is, you ain't seen nothing till you visit my color room and storage spaces. I have all kinds of cool old stuff. If I wasn't lazy I might even go take some pictures so you can see.
     
  10. JD

    JD Well-Known Member

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    CMY additive mixing would give you very little color latitude as they are already secondary colors. (Result- various shades of white.) The only advantage would be the high transmission factors IF you were able to hit the color you want.

    As for RGB? The forth color I would chose would be A as the red and green mixes never quite give a nice amber. I would stick with the "RGB" part as they are the primary colors.

    One thing about color- Any color chosen outputs a subtractive mix of the lamp spectrum and gel color. There are no "perfect" color gels (just look at the transmission charts) so there is some subjective judgments with regard to source colors.

    As for old gels, I always liked the feel of Rocolene! Almost like fruit roll-ups. I know, that's weird, but what can I say ;)
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2008
  11. TimMiller

    TimMiller Well-Known Member

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    I have used movers to color mix (CMY) on a cyc before. I got much better results than using RGBA. Much more even wash, and i didnt lose intensity to mix certain colors as much.
     
  12. icewolf08

    icewolf08 CBMod CB Mods

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    But the CMY [subtractive] mixing is happening in the movers, then you are [projecting that color] on the drop. You can mix an infinite palette within the CMY fixtures and then throw it on the drop. So it is not quite the same as if you put CMY or RGBA in cyc lights.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 7, 2008
  13. Footer

    Footer Senior Team Senior Team Premium Member

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    I have done entire shows in CMY, additive color mixing including a cyc. I ended up using rosco Cal colors for everything. It was kind of interesting to do. You just have to be really aware of how quick everything will go to white. If you are just doing a base color and a teng of another color, it works, but the second you really start messing with stuff, you get white instantly. I have done CMY front and high side systems since that show, but I will never to a CMY cyc again.
     
  14. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

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  15. SteveB

    SteveB Well-Known Member

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    Maybe my memory is going, as I thought I remembered R123 as a lighter shade of amber slk.

    Sorry.

    SB
     
  16. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

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    [user]gafftapegreenia[/user] wins this round, [user]SteveB[/user]. RX123 "Matte Amber" is listed in my 1981 book, (but not the R124-127). R123 is not in my 1997 book, so it must have dyed (joke) I'm guessing about 1990.

    Greenia, send Rosco an email asking why. Years ago when I snail-mailed them a question, they sent me a free "Designer's Edition" swatchbook.

    I find CycSilks more useful than CycFrosts in any case. I really love when designers spec L106, L139, L120, plus L228 or L253 for cyclights.
     
  17. lieperjp

    lieperjp Well-Known Member

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    Regarding RGB mixing, what are the colors one would normally use? I've never tried doing it, actually I read about it a couple months ago and have wanted to try it out. But the only show they use a white backdrop for is the musical which is in October. And it's a scrim, not a cyc (we don't have a cyc.) Would that make a difference? Also, I would be using scoops, not cyc washes.
     
  18. TimMiller

    TimMiller Well-Known Member

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    I have used scrims as a cyc (as long as the scrim is white of course) you will get the same effect as a cyc. I did a show at my old highschool, and i used scoops as cyc lights, i had some tech teacher preaching to me the whole day while i was hanging and focusing that a scoop will not work as a cyc light, and my constant respose is a scoop produces a large soft area of light, isnt that exactly what you need for a cyc? After the first day he quit, and everyone was impressed with the cyc, and they couldnt believe i used fixtures they already had.
     
  19. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

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    What the H-E-double-hockey-sticks did he think we used before the invention of the Berkey-Colortran FarCyc, with its asymmetrical reflector and linear lamp???
     
  20. gafftapegreenia

    gafftapegreenia CBMod CB Mods

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    Derek, who would you recommend I email at Rosco? Most of the time when I try to contact them I never hear anything back.

    When I do RGB gel for a Cyc, my most common preference is R26, R80 and R90. Some will say R27 and R91, but I like the higher transmission rates of R90 and R26.

    I also like to have my three cell cyc lights gelled red-green-blue. That way, the red and green are right next to each other and have the greatest chance of mixing evenly to an amber. The same logic follows with why I like my blue and green righ next to eachother. I highly dislike it when the green stands out in an amebr or cyan mix attempt, but can live with red and blue not mixing perfectly when going for pinks and purples.

    Now, as for scoops, there is nothing wrong with using them as cyc lights. In fact, that WAS their role before the advent of the asymmetrical reflector and the cyc light. Scoops were the great technological advancement of their day, a step up from the RGB roundel striplights and Olivette's. I still like scoops for curved cyc's, and the scoop certainly has a place in a well rounded inventory.

    On that note, Derek, and others, what DID you like better, RGBA striplights, or RGBW striplights?
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2008

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